>> Today is Thursday, March 24th,
2016, and I'm here
in the Sturgis Library at Kennesaw State University.
My name is Adina Langer,
and I'm the curator of the Museum of History and
Holocaust Education and I'm here with Harry Kone.
Can you please start by saying your full name?
>> My full name is Harry Joseph Kone, K-O-N-E.
>> And where and when were you born?
>> I was born August 16,
1920 in Baltimore, Maryland.
St. Ann's Hospital.
>> Can you tell me about your family?
What did your parents do for a living?
>> My mother was always a housewife and
my father brought in ships to the harbor in Baltimore.
He worked for the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad.
And in those days, different railroads
had piers in Baltimore,
like the New York-Pennsylvania Railroad,
Southern Pacific.
Different railroads had piers
and they'd bring the ships in
and they'd unload these ships.
And then obviously,
all the freight would go into the freight cars and
then they would take it to the
various cities, towns, places.
>> Did you live close to
the pier with your family? What was your movement?
>> We moved around several times,
but mainly in west part of Baltimore.
>> And what did your neighborhood look like?
Do you remember?
>> We lived in what they call row houses.
If you want to go around the block,
you have to get out of your front door and walk
all the way around the block to get in the back door.
But it was very nice in those days.
We only had one heater.
That was the furnace in the basement.
But neighbors were very friendly,
cooperative. I enjoyed it.
>> And the neighborhood,
were there lots of different kinds of people,
different jobs that they did
or were a lot the families just like yours?
>> I'm not sure. Growing up,
we didn't talk too much about what your father did.
So we were just a bunch of neighbors who got along,
had fun, played all the games
that kids play in those days.
The policeman though were very nice.
They used to walk around the streets with their little,
I forget what they call their sticks,
but they would have a way of tossing them up and down,
and then up and so on,
and they'd teach us how to do that.
So I learned a policeman's baton, I guess in those days.
So I think in our neighborhood,
we had maybe 20 boys and maybe three girls.
>> Do you have any siblings?
>> No. I didn't.
>> And did your mother, did she stay home with you?
>> Yes. All the time.
>> So where did you graduate from high school?
>> When?
>> What and where?
>> Baltimore, Maryland, Mount Saint Joseph High School,
and I graduated in 1938.
It was a all boys high school at time.
>> And you received a scholarship.
Where did you receive a scholarship
from when you graduated?
>> That was to University of Wisconsin.
They were having a special program.
They wanted people who
could act in and write scripts for television.
They were starting that at
that particular time about 1939, 1940.
>> And was that something you
did while you were in high school?
>> No. This was after I graduated from high school.
>> How did you know you wanted to do this?
>> How did I know? It was something different.
I thought I liked to learn to write
and maybe act in
TV because I were just starting in TV in those days.
So it's just an excuse probably to get out of Baltimore.
>> And what did you know about Wisconsin at the time?
Had you ever been out of the State?
>> Didn't know anything about Wisconsin.
So I just hopped on a train and went from
Baltimore to Milwaukee on the train.
>> At this time, did
you know much about what was going on in the world?
Did you have a sense that we were on the eve of war?
>> Yes. We were talking about it in
high school and studying what was
going on and why it was happening
but never thinking about maybe I'll have to go to war.
Now, who was our president in those days?
That was FDR, was it?
And he was trying to keep us out of war
like Wilson did in World War I.
So that's about the same time that he gave
those four Stacker destroyers to
England because England was
losing so many ships because of the German submarines.
So yes, we were talking about it,
but never thinking that we would be involved.
>> So we left off. It was December 7,
1941, and you were telling me.
>> It was a Sunday, right?
>> It was.
>> I forget.
We were in the morning house.
I think we were having lunch or dinner.
Lunch must have been right when
the news came what happened at Pearl Harbor.
>> You mentioned you were dating
your girlfriend at the time?
>> Yes. Very interesting.
There was a lady who ran
this morning house right overlooking Lake Michigan
was one of the big old fashion houses
and she rented rooms and she also served meals.
And I think we paid for the whole week 7.50.
And for dinner, there would be about 12,
14 of us having dinner.
And so at different times of the day,
different people would be at the boarding house.
And I forget exactly where we were in the living room,
I believe, and they had the radio on,
and that's how we heard about it.
>> So what did you think?
What did you feel when you heard about it?
>> Well, we were in a state of shock.
We didn't think Japan would do anything like that.
Particularly with where we were in
Pearl Harbor with all our battleships down there,
but it had been well planned,
obviously, and they were very successful.
They sunk all of our battleships,
which destroyed them as they thought they did.
And then right away,
Roosevelt declared war on Japan.
And then we started talking and the draft.
I think we had a draft at that time, too.
And I didn't want to be drafted
and so I had discussion with my girlfriend at the time.
Her name was Marjorie.
And I said, I think I'm going to go back home and enlist
and find out what my father did in World War I.
He was in the Navy in World War I
and see what he would say and so on. So I did.
I left at that particular time,
maybe a month or two later and went back to
Baltimore and talked to
my dad and for some strange reason,
we decided I should go in the Marine Corps.
So I went down and enlisted and they accepted me,
and I went to boot camp.
>> Now, what year in college were you at this point?
>> This was the first year.
>> So you mentioned your father was in
the Navy and you had uncles who had been in the army?
>> I had two uncles and they will later be in the army.
>> And so you
received your orders to report to boot camp.
How did that come to you?
How did you get that information
about where and when you report?
>> Well, you mean,
like in the recruiting stations?
Downtown in Baltimore, they had recruiting stations when
I went down and listed at that particular point.
>> And did you spend any time with
your family before you reported.
>> Yes. I guess a couple of months at least.
And then had a notification
we to report downtown in Baltimore.
And they put us on a train in
Baltimore and went to Washington,
DC and then we
boarded another train in Washington and
went to Paris Island, South Carolina.
>> So what were your first impressions of Paris Island?
>> I guess the first impression was,
what the hell am I doing in a place like this?
And till they were
yelling at us right away, the drill instructors.
And then they issued us uniforms, helmets,
and shoes and we'd have to hold a bucket of sand and
then they'd look down under our feet and then
that's the kind of shoes we got that size,
whether they fit or not, that's what you got.
And I think the thing I remember
most about just going to
Paris Island was the fact that the drill sergeant said,
now we have you [LAUGHTER].
Now you are ours.
And then they did from then on,
and it was really very
difficult going through Paris Island?
>> And so how long were you at Paris Island?
>> I imagine we were there about eight weeks.
>> And from there, you went to, [OVERLAPPING].
>> I went to the rifle range.
We went to the rifle range for a week,
learned how to snap in as they say,
and learned all the positions prone kneeling,
sitting off hand,
and then from there,
we had no leave, nothing.
We went right to San Diego
and we helped load not battleships,
but the freighters and we learned to
ride in the afternoon how to come down cargo nets.
First of all, we adjust doing this on our uniforms on,
and then we go down with rifles.
Then we go down with packs,
and then we go down
with all the equipment that we land with.
We didn't know what that was going to be.
So that was about 40,
50 pounds Saco when you're
back going down these cargo nets.
So we learned to do that.
And after the ship was loaded,
we left San Diego and off to the islands.
>> Had you ever been on a big ship like that before?
>> No. I never had no.
>> And so this was 1942?
>> Yes. Right.
>> what was life like onboard
the ship while you were traveling?
>> Well, In the service,
you sort of lose contact with
different people because you count off by numbers one,
two, three, four, and number ones go here,
number twos go there, number threes go here.
And so the people I was with,
we were separated aboard ship.
And then this one day we lined
up and we went through the one,
two, three fours again.
And I forget what my number happened to be,
but they said, all number two step over here.
And now they said, you're now machine gunners.
So from there on in the ship,
I learned all about how to fire a machine gun.
>> Was there any kind of social life on the ship?
Did you get information?
Was there a radio?
>> No, never had a radio one.
No, we just criss crossed zigzag,
I guess, until we landed.
And then we were
training again for later on the other islands, right?
>> So where was the first place that you landed?
>> The first place was Pango Pango,
and this is where the first time we were allowed
to fire weapons with real bullets.
So we knew how to handle it right.
And then we were doing coast watching at the time.
We were in a village in
Pango Pango and we
would have to take turns going out for night watch.
And what we would do we'd have an early lunch.
And then we cross the Carl Reaves to where we had
a machine gun nest and we'd have to stay there
all night and if anything arose,
we'd always have a weapon to fire and
unlike the other groups that we were with.
And one night, this did happen
when we were out there on duty.
And it was a Japanese submarine
and they began to unload from their ship.
And so we started to fire
our machine gun and
nobody did anything because I
don't know if our bullets reached there or not,
but the day before,
we had to reload the machine guns.
The boxes that we have,
they carry their ammunition in.
And we didn't know what they were we were just
putting bullets in where they were supposed to go.
Then as soon as we started to fire this machine gun,
we noticed that we had a lot of tracers.
So it was just a line from where we
were to where the bullets were going.
But fortunately, in the other part of the island,
they had the artillery and I think what they did,
they must have to gauge from where
our bullets were going and where they were,
and they could fire like this.
And it frightened the Japanese,
their battleship, or their submarine.
Then they piled back in again and they shoved off.
So that was my first engagement with firing any weapons.
>> Did you ever
interact with any of the people that lived on the island?
>> Certainly yeah. What happened there?
We had mosquito netting,
but we didn't have any other bars
that you put up and then put
the netting over these bars to
make sure that you were covered.
So we were ordered to go out and get some sticks.
So we went out and start and look
around for some sticks that we thought
would work on bunks,
sacks, what we call them.
And we brought in there what we thought
would first would work properly.
But low and behold,
the talking chief was alerted what we were
doing And we were
told nobody's going to talk to
us the rest of the time we were here.
So we had to go to them and
apologize for cutting in their harvest patches,
I guess, or whatever it was.
And so we apologized and then after that,
they said, anything you want, we'll bring you.
So they brought us bananas and they brought us coconuts.
You just asked for it and they do that for us now.
But we learned that you don't go
out and just cut down whatever you want.
So that was another working with these natives, right?
>> So at this point in time,
as you were training,
you were preparing for the Guadalcanal campaign?
>> Yes right.
>> So what did Marines have to do to prepare to go there?
>> Well, we learned to do
what they called overhead fire.
Bullets coming out of a machine gun will go
so far and they make what they call a beaten path.
So maybe it be like 35 or 40 yards from
the closest bullet to
the furthest bullet after you had this overhead fire.
So the troops can
progress while you are firing over their heads.
That's why it was overhead fire.
But you'd have to stop at a certain point,
or they knew about how far they could go.
Otherwise, you're shooting your own men, right?
So we learned to do that we
just before we went to Guadalcanal.
>> And were you involved in the initial invasion?
>> Not the initial invasion of Guadalcanal.
We came later. We were probably
this next group I think [OVERLAPPING].
>> So can you tell me about what it was
like what the island of Guadalcanal [OVERLAPPING].
>> It certainly is no place you
want to go for a vacation.
A, mosquitoes are horrible.
Although in a way,
they're nice because they take your blood,
but they always deposit something there
and that turns out to be malaria, right?
Then it rains three times a day.
What else going to tell you about the,
everything was jungle.
And if you're in a jungle,
for more than 15 minutes
without a compass, you could get lost.
That's how thick the jungle was.
Fortunately for us, the Japanese had to
attack us because we had Henderson Field,
and that's what they wanted.
And of course, the reverse was then we had
after we controlled Guadalcanal.
But that took us six months to conquer Guadalcanal.
That's how much the Japanese wanted that because whoever
controlled that island would
control everything to Australia,
New Zealand, and parts of Southern Asia.
So they really wanted that.
And of course, we had a hard time
because we didn't have a Navy.
Our battleships were all gone.
And I think they say that a Japanese battleship could
fire their big guns like 14 miles.
So if you had a destroyer, I mean,
they could blow it out of the water before it ever
got close enough to fire at the battleships.
So they controlled all of that and
they controlled all the airfields.
So we were either shot
by the Japanese soldiers
trying to come through the jungles,
where we were bombed by the Air Force,
or we were bombed by the Navy on Guadalcanal.
So we really had a rough time over there.
And if a certain sound of a plane came,
we knew if it was a zero,
we were going to be strafed.
If it was a Betsy, we were going to be bombed.
So we knew which fox hole was to jump into.
So we were trained very well,
and we were waiting for them.
But they really had
a rough time coming out of the jungles.
We'd be there waiting for them.
>> So eventually, did you just war them down?
How did you face them?
>> Well, that's what it was. They lost more than we did.
I think we lost like 1,000
Marines killed and taking Guadalcanal.
So it was a tough battle.
>> And at that time, did you
know about what was going on in the rest of the world?
>> No. Only what
Tokyo Rode would tell us we hear by radio,
What was cooking someplace else.
>> Did you ever see news videos or anything like that?
>> No.
>> And then you caught Malaria pretty early.
[OVERLAPPING] So what was your recovery like?
What was it like to have Malaria?
>> It certainly isn't unpleasant.
You're very weak and you hurt,
you ache all over and you're vomiting quite a bit.
So you wish you weren't there.
And we took our Atabrine we also had quinine.
Today, that's why I like to drink Scotch, vodka,
and quinine water because you fight
malaria with quinine so
I don't want to get quinine in Atlanta.
>> So after you recovered,
what was your daily life like on the island?
What were your duties?
>> Well, because we were in a machine company,
we would be moved around quite a bit.
Wherever they thought the enemy could be coming from,
we'd move our unit to
where we could have firepower and reach
them before they crossed over because
they were so adamant about getting Guadalcanal.
They needed that airfield.
So we were moving around quite a bit.
>> And at some point you ended up helping unload ships.
Can you tell me about how that happened?
>> It was very difficult for
us to have any kind of food, anything,
any ships coming into Guadalcanal because
they could bomb them or else they
could shoot them out with their Navy.
But when a ship would come in,
we'd have to unload it because there were
no docks and there were no porters.
Everything was done by cargo nets.
The ship would come in, throw out its anchor,
and we'd have to move cargo in
little Higgins boats come out and they would unload
big cargo nets coming down and dropping into
our Higgins boat and
we'd unloaded whatever it
happened to be food or ammunition.
And then before you know it,
the ship was gone again.
So we had to do everything in a hurry.
One day, we were unloading.
I was there.
I think there were four of us unloading.
We had our helmets on cartridge belts,
our rifles we had put in the bottom of the Higgins boat,
and then all of a sudden,
the ship was being strafed.
And then the cargo net stopped,
whoever stopped the cargo net,
and it split open and all the things cascaded
down on top of us and we had to dive
from our Higgins boat into the ocean.
Well, in the process of loading,
I had a lot of ammunition on my knees and ankles,
so we could store the stuff in
our little Higgins boat so we can take it to the shore.
And I couldn't pull my legs out fast enough when
all these supplies started to drop down on top of us.
But finally, I made it and in the process,
I twisted my knees and
I wrecked my knees really is what happened to me.
But fortunately, when the cargo net finally broke open,
it fell over caught our Higgins boats and
as we came up from diving,
we grabbed on the cargo nets and that pulled us up,
so we climbed back into our Higgins boat.
But from that time on,
my knees were terrible and I couldn't perform my duties.
So they sent me to a hospital for surgery on my knees,
and that was in New Caledonia.
[LAUGHTER] And then from there,
they sent us to New Zealand
and for more rehabilitation and in reassignment.
And then the next trip we were
supposed to make was back to Bougainville.
But my knees were so bad
that I had to go back to the hospital for more surgery.
>> So before you ended up in New Zealand,
what was the hospital like in New Caledonia?
>> They were all cargo.
They were Quonset huts
all joined together and welded together.
And on the floor yeah were big boards,
what they were cracked.
They weren't always tight together.
And when
different
sailors
would come in and
different Marines because it was a naval hospital.
Rangers didn't have any hospital.
It was all naval hospital.
And they'd have to rig
the guys up depending on how they were wounded.
Let's say you get shot in the legs,
they'd hang you, pull your legs up and you're in a cast.
When they'd make the cast out of
plaster of Paris or some whatever,
it's almost like a concrete.
Well, they'd put in maggots and they
would eat the dead skin in there.
And as the maggots would come out of the cast,
they'd fall on the beds
and so we'd knock them on the floor,
knock them on the wood, and with our crutches,
[NOISE] we'd be able to kill all the maggots.
So it was very rugged times.
>> Do you remember food from that time?
>> I beg your pardon.
>> Do you remember the food?
Do you remember what you ate?
>> What do we eat?
>> Yeah.
>> Whatever they brought us. It wasn't great,
but it was all right.
We survived much better than being on the islands,
in the Guadalcanal,
trying to get something to eat.
In the Guadalcanal, we'd
get powdered eggs for breakfast.
For lunch, they'd get the same eggs
with powdered tomatoes.
And then the dinner we'd get
the same thing only they'd put in Vienna sausage.
And nobody ate it, so they'd throw that away.
Next morning, you get powdered eggs.
[LAUGHTER] Same thing.
That's why we lost so much weight
because we couldn't get all the food we needed.
The ships couldn't last that
long in the little harbors that they had.
>> So during this time,
when you were at the hospital and
then possibly when you were in New Zealand,
did you get to communicate with your family at all?
Did you send or receive any letters?
>> Yes. Once upon a time,
I got about 25 letters from my girlfriend at the time.
She wrote every day.
And of course, on the Guadalcanal,
we didn't get any of the mail at all.
But in New Zealand, I got these 20 some letters.
And of course, everybody in my squad,
they'd all pick up my letters
because when they're delivering them,
the semi would always stand on a box of
ammunition or something and call
your name out and just throw the letter.
So every time Cohn.
So the squad would pick up my letters,
and of course, they'd start reading them.
And they'd always come and say,
Harry, you know what?
You got to marry this girl.
[LAUGHTER] She loves you.
I said thank you for reading my mail.
[LAUGHTER] So days like that make it worthwhile.
The comradery was there.
We were all one.
>> Do you remember any of your comrades in particular?
>> Did they do what?
>> Did you keep in touch?
>> No. After Bougainville,
I think most everybody that I knew was dead.
Nobody that I contacted.
>> So why was this Battle of Bougainville so important?
Why were they training you to go back there?
>> Because that's the way they planned it.
MacArthur and Nimitz, I guess,
MacArthur was going to go into
New Guinea and then they were going
to go up to the Philippines
and then they were going to go into Japan.
And the Navy, because of the ships,
they would go up on the islands.
The Army went one way and the Marines went the other way.
That's why we were in all the islands
because we needed the airfields.
>> Can you describe what the fighting
was like in Bougainville?
>> The what is what?
>> Fighting. What was it like to
fight there? What was the battle like?
>> What can I tell you about that?
Your mind goes blank after a while,
and you know what you have to do,
what you were trained to do,
and you do what you have to.
It's very difficult to talk about it.
>> And your legs have been injured previously.
Did that play a role in how the battle went for you?
>> Well, you know what you're supposed to do.
And you know the men or your comrades on
the left are going to do what
they have to do and those on your right.
And that's why in the Marine Corps,
we have that Semper Fidelis, always faithful.
You know what you have to do
and you know that anybody else
on the other right or left of
you they'll do what they have to do.
>> So after that,
you ended up going back to New Caledonia.
So when was that exactly?
>> What is what exactly?
>> When did you end up going back to
New Caledonia right after the battle?
>> Yeah. Then I went there for more surgery.
>> Was it successful, the surgery?
>> Well, they told me that I was going to have
maybe three other operations rest of
my life. They didn't know.
They do what they have to do at the time.
But they said I had to have probably
at least three other surgeries rest of my life.
Before I forget, I have to tell you this.
I was in a hospital ship coming back
after they couldn't do much more for me
and they said you can't stay over here
much longer because you can't help us.
I came back on a hospital ship
and about a half hour
before we came into the California coast,
the captain made an announcement.
He said in about half an hour,
we're going to go under the Golden Gate Bridge.
Well, as soon as that word went out,
every crutch and every cane
and anything that they could hobble went topside.
And when we went under
the Golden Gate Bridge everybody was quiet.
The only thing that you could hear
with just the motors running in the ship.
And I looked up and I said thank you,
Father, for bringing us home.
I think to this day,
that's the most memorable thing I have in my life.
[NOISE] I forgot my coffee.
>> Go ahead. Take a drink
a little break to drink some coffee.
>> Very good. [NOISE].
>> All these beautiful trees are contributing
to a very intense allergy season.
So you sailed under the Golden New Bridge and this was
your return home to the United States.
How did you feel about leaving the Pacific?
>> Well, I was glad to leave.
We zig zagged all the way back to the States.
And then, first place we landed,
they told us what hospital we're going to.
And what floor it would be on
and different little things like that.
So anyhow, when we landed,
they put us in ambulances.
Hospital was in Oakland, California.
And our beds were selected for us.
And so when we got there, I went to my bed.
We used to call it the sack.
And on there, there was a book
and I thought, this is nice.
The Navy is giving us books.
And I picked the thing up and it said,
The Science of Mind by Ernest Holmes.
Are you familiar with these?
And I said, I've never
seen this book or heard of, but I wonder what it is.
So I started to reading it. Well,
it's one of these esoteric type of books.
And I said, this is fabulous.
Next to the Bible, I think
it's the best book I've ever read.
And unfortunately, we were only there about two weeks,
and it's a real thick book like this.
And they said, please leave
all your books and all the materials
for the next group that's coming through,
the next group of veterans.
And then I went to the hospital in
San Diego for more surgery down there,
but then I didn't know anything about it,
until years later when
we found out that the man who wrote the book,
I could have heard him talk in California,
had I only known him, but
nobody knew anything about Ernest Holmes.
So he created The Science of Mind as a form of religion.
Spiritual approach, I guess,
I should say, but that
was fabulous to have a book like that.
Had all the bads.
So life is wonderful.
It just keeps growing and growing.
>> So was there a difference in
the medical treatment between
the new Caledonia field hospital?
>> In the field hospital, they only
do first class things.
When I say first class,
they do that in a hurry.
They can't do a real fine surgery.
My knees required more type
of surgery than they could do in
the field because they
had to cover the wounds and sew them up,
and things like that.
Remove the shrapnel and different things
to stop the bleeding and that sort of thing.
So they were different,
but there was a run off on medical program.
So I was in five hospitals in California.
>> And do you remember, they did they give
you medication for pain?
>> Pills take you mean?
Yes. Otherwise, you wouldn't be sleeping too well.
Yes. They gave you whatever they thought you needed.
Yeah. They were very good.
>> So after this time that you spent in California,
where did you go next?
>> In the meantime, I was doing guard duty at
different places because they
wanted me to walk around and do the [inaudible].
Then he thought may be great if I went to
OCS because of my experience
in Guadalcanal in different places.
And so I said, no.
I said, I don't think I'm going to make
it because my knees are too weak.
No, you're okay. You're mobile.
So I went to OCS in Quantico and we had to
learn to poop and snoop and
do different things like that to become an officer.
And my legs just gave out completely.
So when I went to the hospital there in Quantico,
the doctor said, son,
you should have been out of this hospital
a year-and-a-half ago.
What are you doing walking around here?
So they discharged me.
>> So just going back to
the trip from California to Virginia,
how did you get across the State?
>> Railroad. That's all they had in those days.
Well, and they had airplanes.
They had troop trains.
So many soldiers and
sailors and marines would be
transferred different places.
So they go so far and then so many would leave
and then we ended up from
California to Quantico, Virginia.
>> Do you remember stopping anywhere along the way?
>> Only need to discharge passengers. No.
>> And when you were in Quantico,
what were your duties?
You were talking about some of the specific training.
>> We were learning to become officers, yeah.
Drills and rifle procedures
and ideas of what you are going to face.
Now, I'm very happy that
was discharged because I would have
gone to Korea as an officer in those days.
>> So then what were your memories at
the end of the war when the bombs were dropped in Japan?
>> I thought that was wonderful.
Otherwise, they predict a million men
were going to be killed going into Japan.
So you're sorry that individuals had to be killed,
but the Japanese were not
famous for protecting prisoners at all.
They were very cruel, almost wicked,
I would say, from what we have
heard about the fellows who were prisoners.
So I was very happy that it was all over.>>
Do you remember where you were when you learned
about the bombs that were dropped on Japan?
>> The bombs on Japan?
>> The atomic bombs. Do you remember where you were?
>> I guess I was in the Pacific at the time.
>> Well, you were in the Pacific when they
were dropping the initial bombs,
but the end of the war,
do you remember that moment?
>> Oh, the end of the war completely.
No, I don't remember where I was.
I really don't, but I must have been very happy,
but I don't remember exactly where I was.
>> So you were discharged in
August of 1945, is that right?
>> Yes.
>> August of 1945?
And can you tell me about meeting your wife?
Where did you go right after you were discharged?
>> I went to Chicago
and we made arrangements to get married in Chicago.
And we were married in Chicago.
>> How did you meet her?
>> I met her at this boarding house way back
in '49, I guess it was.
>> In '39?
>> '39.
>> This is the same girlfriend.
>> Yeah. Wrote me all these letters.
Absolutely. Yeah.
>> And what was her name?
>> Marjorie.
>> And did you write back to her during the war too?
Did you write letters back to her?
>> Unfortunately, I didn't.
And she told me about that too.
She said, I dated a couple of guys while you were gone.
I said, oh.
Well, you didn't write to me that
much. I didn't know where you were.
I said, well, they tore up
all our letters and they
crossed everything out and just said,
and we were so busy.
I said, I didn't have time to really write.
I said, I know I should have, but I didn't,
but anyhow, she was faithful and wonderful.
>> Did she spend the war in Wisconsin?
>> Yes. She rolled bandages.
At the time, she was working for
the Cudahy packing company
and she was working in the main office,
the secretary to the president, she was.
So she was in Milwaukee all the time.
>> So you got married in September in Chicago?
Who came to your wedding?
>> We only had 12 people.
My mother, my father,
her mother, and just friends from Chicago, I guess.
That's it. It was just 12 of us, counting us.
>> So then was it very
shortly after your marriage
that you were diagnosed with ATV.
>> After about three months.
So she waited two-and-a-half years for me.
And she'd have to take [inaudible], a street car,
and a bus to get to the hospital,
and she'd come three times a week, four times a week.
>> And what was that hospital like?
>> It was a VA hospital, veterans hospital.
Just like every other hospital
that you've ever been into.
Although there were more paraplegics and quadriplegics.
Well, let's see. What can I tell you?
A lot of jungle rot on
the people and everything was like purple.
Every time you passed this one section,
they were getting rid of all of
the purple bandages and so on.
And I had to go there of something.
I think my tongue hurt because one
of the fellows that I
was close to had cancer of the tongue.
Naturally, you look at him and you
can pick up cancer too.
And I thought, my tongue is sore.
Maybe there's something wrong.
So I applied to go to
this place where all the wounded people were.
I saw all these bandages.
And I noticed that doctor was using one figure.
She said, let's say we'll do that and we'll do this
here and we'll do that over
here and we'll put them over here.
And all of a sudden, my tongue got better.
[LAUGHTER] I didn't want any of those purple hand,
fingers going in my tongue,
so I get up and walked out.
But they were wonderful.
All the doctors were marvelous.
One thing I would like to explain,
these poor guys coming back from Europe,
from Afghanistan and Middle East and over there.
At nighttime, in the VA hospitals,
we'd get out of our beds and go to
the Johns and we'd sit there and talk to each
other and maybe three or four
of us would sit there for a while and then
maybe three or four other guys
would come in like 1 o'clock,
2 o'clock in the morning, they couldn't sleep and so on.
And then we talked about what happened to you?
Where were you and what was life?
What you're going to do when you're finished?
And I remember this one fellow.
I think he was from West Virginia
and he worked in the coal mines.
And he said, you know, guys?
He said, I am never going down one of those mines again.
And we asked him, why would you not go down there?
And he explained to us
all the problems that they have with the mines and so on.
And he said, that's not for me anymore.
No after being in service
and hearing what some of you guys are doing.
He said, I'm never going to go back there.
And then some of the other fellows,
the black fellows there,
they would talk about the trouble they
had with the white police in the South.
And this one fellow told about,
he asked his wife to come down.
And when she got off the train,
he went up and kissed her and all of a sudden,
the police started banging in on
the back and hitting him on the head.
You're not supposed to kiss
a white woman in a railroad station.
Finally, the MPs were
there and they dragged the police off.
And his wife was quite white.
That was the problem.
Then we hear stories like this,
what happened to some of the Black fellows
and you realize and you look at them,
and they're bleeding in the same way you are,
their hearts are in the same way and
their bloods the same color and
they have the same feelings
and they go to the same churches and all this.
So maybe that's what some of
these fellows should get together and talk what they did,
that would help them because
the psychiatrists aren't helping them.
And it would seem to me
that if they could get together and just talk,
this has happened to me and this is where it hurts,
and this is why I only have one leg.
Of course, the guys are ahed,
they don't talk at all,
so they don't come and talk to you.
But I think that would help them
more than just talking to a psychiatrist.
Just like I'm talking to you and you and I were
in the same truck that got blown up or something.
Anyhow, I think that
helped tremendously in the hospital.
>> So it helps you and
the other veterans in the hospital?
>> Yes.
>> And you had mentioned that you
also became a DJ for the hospital radio.
What kinds of things did you talk about on the radio?
What was the radio like?
>> We would interview different people
who came different celebrities.
That was when Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis were
still partners and they came and talked to them.
Band leaders would come,
Kay Star, a singer.
She was a gal. We interviewed her.
So many people. Different writers would come,
newspaper men would come and we'd talk to them,
ask them what they're doing,
where they're going and so on, like that.
And then we'd play records that the WPA writers created.
Different people from Hollywood would
record different songs and
welcome the fellows back home,
we'd play that to them.
And then somebody believed
that if you had something under your pillow,
like a little microphone,
or a receiver,
that you can learn a language.
And so we put French on and we put Italian on
or whatever language we had, we play those.
But I never remember anybody ever learning to
speak a language because they've
been listening to these things under their pillow.
And then they had physical therapy.
They give us parachutes and they would show
us how to pull different strands
out and we can make napkins,
make table cloths out of the parachutes.
And plastic, we made pianos out of plastic,
teeny pianos and we make purses and wallets,
out of leather, and they teach
you how to sew it and all that thing.
So the hospitals were very
good for us for rehabilitation.
What did you do with those things when you made them?
Did you keep them or did you sell them?
In fact, you can see a great big sergeant knitting
[LAUGHTER] and they made little booties and they'd make,
I don't know,
but they make little pillows, I guess, and things.
And here they are knitting [LAUGHTER].
I never learned to knit right.
I made a couple of wallets and some things like that.
Well, you give them to people
because it didn't cost us anything for the material.
It all came from the VA.
And some things that were so nice
so they put them in the little place where they sold,
coffee and food and
things like that for visitors and they buy them,
they buy these things, wallets and purses.
>> So while you
were in the hospital,
what were your hopes and dreams for the future?
What were you thinking about that you wanted to do next?
>> One nice thing. The University of Wisconsin
was working with the Army.
I guess it was the army.
And they would give courses and I took
a whole year of English literature
from the University of Wisconsin.
From [inaudible] I think it was called,
United States Armed forces, something or the other.
>> While you were in the hospital?
>> While in the hospital. They come right to my bed.
>> This was the University of Wisconsin or
University of Chicago?
>> That was from the University of Wisconsin.
>> And so when you when you did get out,
you went back to complete
your undergraduate degree, where?
>> At Northwestern.
>> And how did
you obtain your GI Bill benefits to do that?
How did you learn about the GI Bill?
>> I just applied for it.
And when I was discharging Quantico,
I think I was given a 20% disability
right then when I was discharged from the from Quantico.
So I guess I was already registered with the VA
and so I just applied for it and away I went.
>> And did they give you and
your wife housing assistance as well?
>> They paid for everything.
We didn't get pensions in those days.
We got compensation because
in compensation, they can cut it.
Pension, I guess, is sacred.
And that was from World War I.
Those fellows got pensions.
So we only got compensation.
Well, I was in the hospital,
I was 100% disabled and then they kept cutting it back.
But I guess they sent the bills to
Northwestern and because I never pay the thing.
And I go to the bookstore and just sign and
chit and get my books and everything, all paid for it.
>> What did you study?
>> Communications. So speech pathology and audiology.
>> And where did you live while
you were attending school?
>> I lived with
my wife in an apartment building. We had an apartment.
>> Was it close by campus?
>> Yeah. I took the L every
day to to Evanson because we were
living in Chicago right on
the lake front off Lake Michigan.
>> And can you tell me about
your career after you graduated?
>> Well, let's see. After I got my degree,
I went and got a master's degree,
and then I taught elementary school.
This one school I went to the principal, said,
Harry, you have to go to the second grade
because they're having trouble with the teacher reading.
I said, okay,
I haven't done this before.
He said, well, you're a professional.
You got your degree. He said go do something.
I said, okay,
so happened that she talked this because she
had a legal lisp and of course,
the kids were trying to imitate
he's they weren't learning to read.
So she and I had to have
a long talk and
I'm trying to help her with her legal lisp.
So that was my first experience
of teaching in the elementary schools.
That was fun.
And then high school, same thing.
We try to communicate with people who had difficulty.
Some had lingual.
Other would have had a lateral lisp.
So we tried to help them.
>> And eventually, you became a professor.
>> Yeah. I guess I went from one to
elementary high school to college
because they needed a speech teacher in college.
And so I went up
there and I taught English as a second language.
And all my career in
phonics was so important
when you're teaching foreign language.
How some don't do not pronounce the ahs and
some can't pronounce the ings and so on.
And I think we had like
72 foreign countries when I was teaching in Chicago.
>> Altogether in the same class,
people from all different countries?
>> Yeah. They just mix them all up. Sure.
>> How long did you teach?
>> Forty some years.
>> And can you
tell me a little bit more about your family,
your children? Where were they born?
>> My oldest daughter she has her PhD.
My youngest daughter went here to school,
got her master's here,
and she worked in the commodity market for 13 years.
I wish I could remember the gentleman who is in charge of
the financing department because
she liked him very much and she worked for him.
And I think he now he's associated with the university,
but I can't remember his name, really.
He has his own business and he's doing very well.
Because Barbara worked with him for a while.
And my son,
he went to University of Michigan,
I think, and he majored in fraternities and beer,
I think that was his first year.
And then we told him he can't
stay in college and do that.
So we took him out of that and sent him to University of
, where did he go?
Some place down in Chicago.
And I can't remember where it is now.
And then he got a job working in
a sporting goods store learning to put boots on skis.
And then he went down to visit his sister who happened
to be living in Atlanta at the time,
and he got a job right away in
a sporting goods store doing the same thing.
And then he went to a bank,
I forget the name of the bank,
Nations Bank, I think it was at the time.
And he worked in lockboxes.
Now, a lock box is not safety deposit box.
That's a different story.
And it's when you send a check in,
say for corporations money
for some reason, you send them a check.
That check goes to a lock box.
And now once that's recorded,
they can use that money to lend it to
other corporations or to
other businesses, things like that.
He learned to do that and then
he learned to sell to banks.
So he's out selling all of
this computer rigmaroles to banks.
>> So what are your children's names?
>> Susan is the oldest.
>> She was born when?
>> 1950. And then Barbara was born
two years later and she's the one who came to
school here and she was
the first girl to major in finance
and also in statistics, I think she was.
And then my son Stewart.
And while he was working for the bank,
they sent him to school, he graduated from
Georgia State, I think it is.
So we have a very happy family.
And we're all living here.
They wanted us to move down from
Chicago because they were afraid that we
have a road rage or
something or run into some abutment or something.
They found this apartment for us.
That's where I'm living down in that apartment.
>> And your wife she passed away in 2010.
>> I'm sorry what?
>> Your wife, she passed away?
>> Yes. She's been dead about a year now.
>> But you still see your children frequently?
>> She had one son who who went to
University of Georgia and
he took over his mother's business.
Barbara his mother.
And he's in her business now,
and he's a financial advisor and my son,
as I say this is his 16th job.
>> So before I ask you my last question,
I wanted to actually go back.
I realized that I didn't ask you early on.
You had mentioned that when you were first in
school at the University of Wisconsin
that you tried to work,
where you worked briefly on airplane factory?
>> I worked in a steel mill.
If I wanted to stay in school,
I needed money, so I had to earn some money.
I forget who it was at the dinner table.
I told you we had these like 15 people
for dinner they talked
different things and they said they
heard about this steel mill that needed some people.
So I applied and I got the job.
And we were making
fuel oil tanks for tanks for Army tanks.
And our job was to weld these tanks to hold gasoline.
Well, after they're welded,
they have to be tested because the weld doesn't
always hold and they
has to be rewelded in these certain places.
I was a tester. We would test these
by putting them in tanks of water and so on.
Then they asked us to who wanted to learn
to weld because welders make very good money.
Years ago, big ships used to be bolted together.
That takes a lot of weight.
They could use the weight someplace else.
The Germans learned to
weld instead of using these big bolts.
So Americas needed to make all the ships.
And if you could weld overhead particularly,
you can make very good money
and it's working for a steel company.
And they asked us in this factory,
if anybody want to learn to weld.
I said, sure, I'll learn.
Well, when you weld,
you have an arc and the the rod
and what you're trying to weld together it makes a very,
very bright light and
you have to have some way of protecting your eyes.
So you have a big mask. I think you've seen them.
And so you snap your head
down just as you're making that arc
and the light goes right into
the glass and to protect your eyes.
I had a hard time getting
my eyes accustomed to hitting it at the same time.
And I said, this is not for me.
I'm going to go blind if I keep doing this.
So I gave it up.
I said, I'm not a welder.
>> And this factory where you worked was it unionized?
>> They were in Milwaukee.
Yeah. It was still mill.
>> Was there a union there?
>> Yes. You bet it was.
We didn't have trouble with the welding,
but the welds came around too frequently.
And they they have a man who comes around and
checks you and you're supposed
to do so much work in an hour.
Well, if it wasn't done,
if maybe we could check
five tanks an hour. That's all we could do.
Well, sometimes we couldn't do that many,
then they sent this guy around to
check and find out what was why we couldn't do it.
We're trying to explain that
sometimes the welds wouldn't work,
we could only do one an hour or two an hour.
Now, you got to do five an hour
or you lose some of your pay.
But we went to the steward and we explained to him.
We said, we don't mind doing five or 10, if we can,
but some of them don't weld,
it takes us a longer time.
He said, okay. Any problem?
What do you what do you suggest?
He said, well, we'll do as many as we can.
But we'll do 10 if we can.
We don't mind that. So he said,
okay, everybody in the factory stop.
And everybody on the floor
stopped while he went and talked to
the management and then they
sent this man around again who was going to check on it.
So he agreed that you have to
do more than five and if you only do one or two,
we can't deduct from your salary.
So it was one of those things that we
agreed on and it worked very nicely.
So in my case,
I was very happy to be part of the union.
You want some of my coffee?
>> Thanks. I've got some water here.
So I was curious,
in the factory where you were working,
were there White workers,
Black workers all working together?
>> I was only in a certain section.
So you only see those people in your particular section.
So where I was working, no,
I didn't see any Black people working there.
Not that they wouldn't hire them,
but I just didn't see any.
>> And you come from Baltimore.
Was Baltimore segregated at
that time when you were growing up there?
>> Yes. Definitely.
>> I remember because you mentioned that when you were in
the VA hospital in
Chicago and you were
talking with all different kinds of soldiers,
you learned more about
the experiences of some of the [OVERLAPPING]
>> Absolutely.
>> Was that something that was new to you?
Did you know any Black people
when you were living back in Baltimore?
>> No. But that's
what really turned me on that we're all the same.
In fact, we were at
the discussion at church once upon a time,
and I said, God doesn't make any mistakes.
I mean, he's not stupid.
Why would he make Black people, White people,
Brown people, Red people,
and whatever else; yellow people, I guess?
Unless we find out why,
maybe that's why we're having trouble.
Once you find out why he did that,
maybe that'll give us peace.
I don't know. Anyhow, that helps me out to do that.
>> I guess the last question I want to ask you is,
your experiences during World War II,
what do they mean to you today?
Why do you think people should know
about what it was like?
>> Well, according to what we're taught,
love is the most important thing there is.
Most people don't know what love is all about.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be around shooting people or
killing people or hanging them or whatever they do.
And I think we have to learn that.
And that's the most important thing.
And that helping people, being neighborly,
being friendly, how can you improve society if possible?
Why do people have to have guns?
I don't oppose the guns,
because I shot all the guns I
wanted to shoot and did all that sort of thing,
but we have police;
we have the civil police,
we have National Guard,
and all these people who should carry guns.
Why would a person in a city need a machine gun?
That's stupid, as far as I'm concerned.
And I think the Second Amendment is misinterpreted.
Remember, in those days,
they didn't have rifles.
A rifle is different than a musket.
You understand why,
about the grooves and the rifle?
It would take you a minute
to reload after you've shot once.
Today, what? You have a machine gun go to a movie house
and you can shoot like 16 bullets in a couple seconds.
So why do you need rifles?
I mean, yes, let's all go back to muskets.
Everybody's entitled to a musket.
[LAUGHTER] They're not minding those.
You can go ahead and shoot deer,
shoot turkeys, and things like that.
Maybe there were Indians attacking you or something,
but we don't have that anymore.
So why do you need a machine gun?
>> So do you think that learning
about World War II and learning
about Veterans' experiences can
help people put it all in perspective?
>> Well, everybody is different.
We all have a mind. We have
wonderful minds and we should use them.
And so you have to make your decision.
You may believe something that I don't believe.
I don't say you're wrong,
I'm not going to go shoot you because you
don't believe my beliefs.
So we have to learn that we all are different.
But we're all one because we've been
created by God, I suppose.
I think our job in life now is to try to
make peace and be neighborly.
>> Do you want to show us the hat that you brought?
>> Sure.
I didn't know it was open.
>> There you go.
>> Thank you. [LAUGHTER]
>> So it says Marine Corps League.
And is this something that all veterans get or is it?
>> Well, they have the American Legion,
Veterans of Foreign Wars, Disabled American Veterans.
They're all groups, and this is a group for Marines.
>> And what does the group do?
>> They take care, supposedly,
of Marines who are wounded.
Now, they have the veterans.
You see the versement for the veterans.
Well, part of them is the Marine Corps league.
So they help if
they're poor or they're broke
or they're sick or something,
or they need help at the VA.
So that's what we do.
And we meet once a month.
>> How long have you been a member?
>> Couple of years now. American Legion,
I was with my father.
So I've been there for 60 years, I guess.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So is there anything else that I didn't
ask you about that you want to say,
that you want to mention?
>> Well, let me think.
That's dangerous, I have to think.
Well, I wish more people would go
to the Veterans Administration and
see all these guys in casts and wounded,
learning to, if they're blind or if they're crippled
or one leg or one arm missing or something.
Why we shouldn't be like Islam.
To me, that's not a religion.
If it's a religion,
you don't go around killing people,
because you're supposed to have love and joy,
peace, and they don't seem to believe in those things.
And if you don't believe what they
do, then they can kill you.
I mean, how can you put a man in a cage,
lock it, and then set it on fire?
Is that human? Just because
I don't believe what you believe,
that's not the way to treat me.
That's why it's a rough world,
because we're trying to get people love
one another and others don't want to do it, I guess.
>> Thank you for coming and speaking with us today.
>> Oh, I'm very happy to do that.