>> We're recording.
>> Hi, Mills. So my name is Adina Langer,
and I am the curator of the Museum of History and
Holocaust Education at Kennesaw State University.
Today is August 5th, 2021,
and I'm here at the Museum of History
and Holocaust Education with
Derek Cook for a legacy series interview,
during which we will remember his childhood in
the UK during World War II.
First, do you agree to this interview?
>> Yes.
>> And can you please state your full name?
>> Derek John Cook.
>> And when and where were you born?
>> I was born in Exton in a village in England in 1938.
>> And what part of England is Exton in?
>> It's 100 miles north of London directly north,
really and it's in the smallest county,
which is called Rutland and between Lincolnshire and
Leicestershire and just a small village.
>> What were your parents' names?
>> My father was named Tom.
My mother was named Daisy.
>> And what did they do for a living?
>> My father was a carpenter journeyman,
which meant there was a qualified person
to travel and work.
And he came to Exton and was employed by
the Earl of Gainsborough Estates to
do all sorts of wood works around the estate.
He was from Lincolnshire.
My mother was in the village of Exton,
she may have been born there, but she wasn't far away.
And then she came to live in
Exton with her aunt when her mother died at Age 15.
She was 15, and she came
to live with the aunt to help her in a store,
look after her as she got older.
And in that store,
we had a post office.
Actually, the post office came after I was there,
because my aunt fell down and broke her hip,
my mother went to live
with her and stay with her working there,
and then eventually married my father,
and we had a separate house,
and we had to go and live in the business eventually.
>> And did you have any siblings?
>> No.
>> So tell me a little bit about
your neighborhood. What was Exton like?
>> It was an old stone village, 500 people.
There were a few rental houses,
but a lot of the houses were tied and owned by the Earl,
and most people in those houses would work for the Earl.
>> And was there a church in the town?
>> Yes, it's just a small town, a village.
And so it has one very large and an old church,
which is Church of England,
which we were at faith.
And then in the big hall where the Earl lived,
eventually, his family became
Roman Catholic because they
married into a Roman Catholicism.
And he had a chapel within the house.
And so the village people were allowed to go into
the ground each Sunday to their church attendance.
>> That's [inaudible] so
you were only a year old when war started in Europe.
Did you have a sense for how the war was
affecting your family when you were a young child?
>> Yes, when I was young. And initially,
the impression was just that uncles and aunts had gone,
and they went into the forces
and they went into other things.
And they came back in uniform,
and it was all a bit strange, I remember.
That was really the only immediate effect except that
the government put Russian books out.
So everyone had to have a Russian book,
to get the coupons, to get the food.
And we lived in the shop,
and so we saw these people come and go.
And otherwise, village life was fairly
normal until later on.
>> So how did your family get news?
How did they find out about
what was going on with the war?
>> Radio, newspapers. That was it.
>> And what were some
of your earliest memories of bombing raids?
You mentioned this in your memoir.
>> We didn't have bombing raids as such where we were.
We were surrounded by
airfields and some of them were bomber.
Some of them were fighter.
But the Germans when they came in to bomb,
they came into bomb either when the Blitzkrieg came on,
they actually bombed the cities.
But prior to that, they were doing strategic bombing,
which was bombing these airfields
to try and get the catch
the airplanes parked outside on
the ground and then
destroy them while they were sitting on the ground.
Bombing, as I said,
was really just occasional.
And it wasn't bombing delivery, where we were.
It was unloading bombs
because they didn't get to
where they were going, the Germans.
>> Do you ever remember feeling
the house shake or anything like that?
>> Oh, yes.
Our house it was a stone house in the village.
The walls were probably 18 inches thick,
so it was almost like a shelter anyway.
But on occasion, we could hear the bum bum,
and on one occasion, particularly,
the house did shake
and I remember the clock moved on the wall,
and the pots were rattling in the corner to it.
>> It must have been frightening.
>> I don't know that I realized what was going on that.
>> Do you remember seeing men in
uniform coming into the village?
>> Yes. Apart from
the residents who came
back and forth when they had to leave.
There's a mass influx of troops,
American in fact and because
the Earl had gone with his mother to America for safety,
the big house was in
the village Exton Hall, it was called.
The Americans took over
the house and the grounds, everything.
And they were therefore a few months,
not for so long, but just a few months.
And then they all went off to Europe.
>> So what do you remember about those American troops?
Any special memories of how they were?
>> They were mainly good people.
I think they were both
Black troops and White ones
all over the country all over the states.
And they were particularly good to the kids.
They did things to entertain them.
They showed them films.
They adopted them as if they were big brothers.
And in fact, I had a big brother called Eddie Scars,
who came from Chicago.
And he would come and visit,
bring ice cream and things because they had
the top had all this stuff that we never saw.
And then he had a girlfriend in Chicago too,
called Margot, and she would put
a good package together from time to
time and send it over to me.
So that was a good time.
He got back after the war and found that
out or he sent me a photograph,
and I've got a photograph here. I'll show you.
And I think the other things
as kids we taunted them a bit,
but the troops would give
people as kids rides
in the jeeps and all this sort of stuff.
And so that was fun.
They liked to go to the pub a
lot and they like to chase the girls a lot.
And there was catch phrases where
Americans the kids got the hang of saying
things that got any gum chum they said,
you got a sister, Mr?
And so there was quite a lot of interaction went on,
and there were good times in the village hall and stuff.
>> So can you tell me a bit about your education?
Where did you go to school?
>> I went to school in the village to begin with.
And then the system in England was at 11 years of age.
You take two exams,
and then an interview, and to
decide which secondary education you would get.
A majority of children,
boys and girls would go on to
a secondary and modern school, I think it's called now.
And the people who got through the exam,
there was about 50 a year to the boys
school because there was
a public school in the next town,
a public school being what you call a private school.
And our county didn't have a school at that level.
So it paid for people like me that
managed to get through the exams to go to that school.
And then I stayed there until I was 18,
and then I went to London University
and did my time there.
I was one of the lucky ones, I guess.
>> So when you were a young kid and you
were still in a village school,
what information do you remember learning about the war?
>> We had posters
and the cartoonist things
and things to make us aware of it,
and then there was the loose lips
and all this things
were put out in the war as propaganda.
We were provided through the school with vitamins and
cocoa and things rose
hips up different natural things to keep us healthy.
We were regularly seen by the visiting nurse.
Nitti Nora what we called her.
She was looking for the lice.
And I remember when I was at school,
I also had a day
when the nurse decided
that I had some little spots around my mouth,
but a whole lot of purple,
bright purple stuff on my face.
So I went home at the end of the day,
and Mother saw me
come in and said, what's happened to you?
What? And she really really was quite upset,
and she scrubbed it off me as fast as
she could and put some other cream on.
So that was one of the things the nurse did.
And what else did we
get a dentist would come and he'd have
a pull along the caravan behind
his vehicle and we parked on the village green,
and then we would go from the school into
the caravan once in six months
maybe once in three months but he
went around all the villages doing that.
So that was pretty good attention.
But we had a gas masks and
we were told to be careful with lights,
for instance, we weren't able
to have a drawing curtains after dark.
They had to be tightly closed.
So no light showed and there were
air raid wardens go around the village after dark.
And if they saw a glimpse of a light,
they knock on the door and contravening the rules.
So that was always a laugh, I guess, really.
Because we knew that I mean,
they're all members of the village.
They weren't you know,
professional people sit in.
They were all volunteer home guard
or air raid wardens or something like that.
>> So tell me if you remember,
what did that gas mask look like that you were given?
>> There were different ones.
The little kids like I was.
I'm not sure but I must have had
a baby one too because they had them with
like a cradle with
the child would lay in it and it would you button it up.
And then they went on from the one that just
fitted over your head with straps.
And it had like a some sort of material in a nose piece,
a bit like goofy, and that
would prevent the gas from getting into.
And then they went on to adult ones,
which were the same principle,
but different, just ordinary black
and with plastic glass in them.
So everyone had one of those.
>> And the kids one,
you mentioned it was goofy. What colors? What?
>> Bright colors. I think I had one was red and green,
I think, but memory fails me exactly.
>> So you talked a little bit before about rationing,
but was it easy for your family to get enough to eat?
>> Again, our family was
fortunate because we baked the bread,
we had the groceries,
and we rationed out the goods to
the people depending upon
how many coupons they had in the ration book,
two ounces of cheese and two ounces of
butter and small quantities.
But in the village, and I mentioned before,
we were fortunate in many ways,
one of them was also that we would be able to
catch meat in the form of rabbits and hairs,
pigeons, rooks, but they were all folded into
the diet, and also eggs.
Eggs were okay because most people had hens of their own.
And if they didn't the farmers,
instead of sending some of the eggs
to the government or the market or wherever they went,
they would have to make some test on them or declare
them unsuitable didn't meet the class.
And so those were available to people around the village.
We got plenty of milk from the farm,
and all in all,
we did well I think the people in
the cities didn't have
gardens and they didn't have
fresh vegetables and all that stuff.
Much tougher for them.
>> So what do you remember about growing food?
Did your family have its own garden?
>> Yes. We had grow
regular vegetables in the seasoned potatoes,
cabbage, cauliflower beans, carrots,
and all the regular green grocery product we would get.
>> And you talked about how
the men of the village would trap these animals.
Do you remember how they did it?
How did they trap rabbits?
>> Yes. They would have snares,
which would be above the ground,
and it was a wire ring with
like a slight slip knot on it.
So it would set it up on a stick and
when the rabbit came along and hop in,
they hop always on the same path where they go.
So you know way to set this thing
up and as it jump through it,
it hangs itself basically
or it chokes itself and it's dead.
That's if they do it on a bigger scale because
rabbits tend to live in a big group called a warren.
And if they're a real nuisance and they want to do more,
what they do is they go around
the barn and set up nets
over the hole, it was many holes.
And then they have a [inaudible] called a ferret,
and they're on a string,
and they push them down the various holes.
They go in, and that scares the rabbits,
and the rabbits try to run away,
and as they come out of the hole they dive into
a net and then they have to be silence, shall I say.
But it wasn't brutal,
but it was necessary, I guess.
And I don't think we were as soft hearted
in those days as perhaps we are today about animals.
>> So you mentioned in your memoir
how rabbits and some pigeons
were different in the eyes of
the law from pheasants and hairs.
Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
>> That tended to be something to do with, I guess,
the days back royalty,
had more and more of the land.
And the hair was much bigger animal than the rabbit,
but in law as you say,
it was considered to be game and that means that it was
really the property of the land owner and not the tenant.
And so the tenant could take the rabbits,
but he couldn't take the hair or the pheasants.
They were always tempting, and there
was quite a lot of poaching went on,
but they were really prison type fines and crimes.
>> So since your family owned a shop in the village,
what do you remember about people bringing
their ration cards to the shop?
How did that transaction work?
>> They had a book,
I'll show you a cover of one here,
and it was marked out in
squares or whatever lines and my mother
or aunt would take the book and cut
down and then cut across and take a coupon
and they would have to store that.
And then they would send it off to
the food ministry or through their wholesale, actually,
I think it went to the food ministry and then
they would approve supplies for the next two weeks.
And sometimes we would order
on I think Friday or Saturday,
and it would be delivered from the wholesaler on Tuesday.
And we always were keen to see what it was.
We didn't necessarily get what we
ordered, some of which we get it.
Sometimes you get more, sometimes you won't
[inaudible] Whatever was available,
you got a quantity of the daily.
But distribution was pretty good, I remember that.
But as I said, also,
that there was some local trading done at
the local level because people had
relatives somewhere, relative somewhere else.
They had things that we didn't have and vice versa.
The lady would come to the store with a shopping basket,
with a layer at the bottom with stuff in it.
And then when nobody's
looking bring it out and pass it on.
We would put in
the store or other people
would be there and to meet them,
and trading would go on black market,
stuff but very minor in a way.
>> So you talked as well in your memoir
about the role that a pig would play in your family.
Could you tell me a little bit about that?
>> That was the centerpiece really
of the family in as much
as it provided a lot of food.
And every year, people would buy,
have a pigsty in
the back yard which was
just a little shed and a little run,
and people with a fence about this high.
So people would go and look at it
and watch it grow and give it
scraps and potatoes that
weren't up to the market feed it those.
And it would buy about September or October,
it would have grown from this big to this big.
And so then there was a guy in the village,
every village was self sufficient,
really, who was the pig killer.
And he had a stun gun and
a sharp knife and he we would book him for
the Saturday morning and have to get a bail of straw so
that after the pig was stunned and throat slit,
it would fall over onto the straw and light
the straw and that would burn a lot of the hair off it.
Then after that was to clean it all up and
the internal staff taken out.
The family plus relatives and friends were set
about preparing it for storage and eating, whatever.
So your aunt, your uncle's friends would come around and
then cut it into various pieces,
and then the bigger pieces like
the ribs and the sides and they
would put them in
a shallow trough which was full of salt.
And then they keep over the season and just
keep adding it until it was cured,
and then you could take it right through
the winter and eat it through the winter.
So he gave a big feast immediately,
and they store to go out.
Again, that was all really outside the rationing thing.
So again, city people wouldn't have that privilege.
>> So you mentioned in
your memoir that in addition to all this food,
you could use other parts of the pig,
and you talked a little bit about how
pig's bladder was really, tell me about that.
>> Well, pig's bladder is not round,
but it's quite about this size.
And we would get a bike pump and
pump it up through the neck, it has a neck on it.
And then when it was hard you tie it
down and then we kick it around,
play football with it until
somebody trod on it or it burst or something.
But that was a bit of fun,
and the saying in the country was if
that use everything in the pig house except it's squeal.
It good old fashioned country people.
>> So in addition to your football,
what other toys do you remember playing with as a child?
>> They're all second hand and not many of them.
They're all hand me downs within
the broader family or
sometimes in the village, you could get stuff.
But it was overused stuff,
and that was a problem.
But we got by and we got
our little three wheelers and
then two wheeler and we did what we could.
But other toys,
you could make a lot of things out from wood,
we made sledges or toboggans from
woods and so we spent a lot of the winter on those.
We had old games,
snakes and ladders and all those table games.
>> Do you remember when you were
getting a special puzzle?
>> From as well as Eddie Harris' girlfriend,
Margot is sending his stuff.
We had another source from Canada.
Grandma had gone to
Canada with two or three of her children in the '30s,
settled around Hamilton in Ontario,
and they were aware of the plight.
And so they would send frequently
Canadian sweaters and different things.
And once they sent her a jigsaw puzzle.
They were always good to do,
and you don't often get a new one.
So this one came new and pristine,
and then we used it a lot.
One day, for some reason, there was a piece missing,
and there was quite a little bit of hell to pay
them because we were careless kids.
>> I can imagine. So what
else did your family do for fun?
What were some of the activities around the village,
especially at the holidays?
>> Generally, we would walk
weekends around go to church and do that.
And in the Village Hall,
there would be more for the adults,
but there would be whist drives,
and dances, and stuff.
And I think I started going to whist drives
when I was about eight or
nine which is towards the end of the war,
but they had a lot of theatrics.
They did a pantomime,
the ladies and some of the men.
And so the garden was always something to do,
and they had flower and pet shows and
very much self container really in that respect.
>> And what is a whist drive?
Is it you play cards?
>> Yes. It's a game called whist.
I don't know that it's like
bridge or probably not so complicated,
but it is just a card game, yeah.
>> So can you tell me a little bit about
hosting evacuees from London and Coventry?
>> Yes. In our village,
we had quite a few evacuees
from both those places and others.
And because we were just my father,
my mother and me in a three bedroom house,
it was designated that we would take some evacuees.
And fortunately, I guess we got
three that we knew from earlier friendships,
all three from Coventry.
And then they weren't all relatives, but one was.
Tony was a relative.
He stayed with us and the other two.
And in fact, they just
escaped out of Coventry on the night of a big raid,
and as they were coming
to bring the kids to us that night,
the place was all aflame,
so it was a bit of an experience for them.
So that's about it.
We did that. And then they were older than I was.
And so I ran
around with them and got pushed into the fireplace,
but I got tripped and fell in and had marks on my arm,
here to prove it.
That was a good fun but one of them, Tony,
his father was a air raid warden,
and he got killed one night on some raids.
So that was upsetting.
>> And was his mother able to come out at that point,
or did he have to still stay with you?
>> He stayed with us, yes. I don't know.
Those days, people didn't have cars and stuff
so only business people
and priests or parsons business people
would have a vehicle.
Otherwise, you service bus or taxi and Coventry
is about 40 or 50 miles away so there
was no service at all there really.
So it was tough there.
>> How long did the children stay with you?
>> Until the German stopped bombing the cities,
and I think it was some time in '44, probably.
That's when all the Americans came.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So what was some of the roles that you
remember adults playing on the home front?
>> Apart from being the air raid wardens,
there were spotters for the airplanes.
And I think what else that might be doing?
There were home guard,
I think I said that.
They would be good citizens,
certainly and report anything
that they thought was untoward,
and I think that's about the role I played.
>> And what about, you mentioned in
your memoir your Aunt Joan?
>> Yes. This house that we lived in a family house
had two or three generations floating around in there.
And she was a young girl,
became a hair dresser just before it all happened.
And she was diverted from her job to go
into a heavy munitions factory at a town a little away,
so she had to go and live there.
And she was working on heavy machine work.
It was that I remember her being very upset by that.
It was not a sort of environment or life,
and she aged in that time.
>> And what about your father?
What role did he play in the Home Guard?
>> I don't know what rank he was.
I can't remember. I don't
know if you've ever seen an English program
called Dad's Army.
It's a program about the RF, but it's spoofed.
And so we always can tease him. That was how he was.
They were just doing fully about,
they weren't doing anything useful and things like that,
but they were there.
But they used to have to go train and shut fire
and they used to say those.
But they were training, it was competitive shooting.
And then someone would pass the word around that
the best shots were being transferred to the coast.
So immediately, the performance dropped right off.
[LAUGHTER]
>> And your mother,
you mentioned that she had a role
as well in the Village Women's Institute? [OVERLAPPING]
>> She was president of the Women's Institute
for quite a few years.
And so she and a lot of friends and relatives did
good work through that with fruit picking in the field,
was in preparing jam,
and then fruit,
and all that stuff.
That was domestic stuff.
And then they did knitting to send to the troops
and other needlework like that.
And that's one of the organizing things.
If there was some need to
have a team of people to distribute something,
everybody would kick in and help on that.
I remember that.
>> So tell me about riding your bicycle around.
And you mentioned one particularly interesting thing
that happened when you rode your bicycle and your memoir.
>> After I was a little older and very old,
but I became a rider of two-wheeler.
And the father was able to persuade
somebody to sell him a little red bike about this height.
And I was absolutely
excited so much on that one that came over.
But I used to get it everywhere on it,
and everybody went everywhere on the bikes.
And so in the summer evenings,
we would bike out as a family
or other more people than that.
There weren't cars all over the place.
You can just go where you want it.
And we go to the airfields
and see the planes getting ready for takeoff.
And one particular time,
I think that's the one you're thinking about.
We went about five miles with bike.
And there was a word that go around,
there was going to be a parachute
jumping session there at practice.
And so we went and we got
there and we stood on the edge of the field,
and there's a railway line by it.
And then, the soldiers started coming
down and with confetti there in their parachutes.
And one of them was
coming down right onto the railway line,
but there were telephone lines alongside the railway.
And he was strung up in those wires for quite a while.
They were so young, those guys,
and so some of them were cheerful when distressed.
And that was one of good things to witness.
>> So before we move toward the end of the war,
I wanted to revisit one thing
about the American soldiers.
So you mentioned that they showed
up at the end of 1943-ish?
>> Yes.
>> Is that right? And what differences
did you notice between
the American soldiers uniforms
and their British counterparts?
>> Well, the British uniforms were khaki,
not the same color quite as Americans.
But they were thick hairy material,
probably more durable and
probably nicer when it's cold weather.
But the Americans, they were round,
they had money, and they had smart uniforms.
They all looked like officers, to be honest.
And they had the nice badges on.
I did have some of those badges at one time,
but I don't know where they are anymore.
But yes, they were smooth,
and then well-groomed, and whatever.
I think it impressed some of the ladies.
[LAUGHTER]
>> And when was it that they all
started to go that they left?
>> Well, several months before D-Day, which is June 6.
They congregated into England
and they brought lots of machinery and stuff.
And a lot of,
mainly the vehicles, not the big big equipment,
but they were parked along the country
roads up tight into the hedge row and
the trees over so that when
the German recondring planes came over.
They would not hopefully be able to see them.
And so when they
were moving on towards
D-Day two or three months, I guess,
before D-Day when everything moved down to
the south, they left.
But yeah, they were good visitors in lots of ways.
>> So toward the end of the war,
you had mentioned that you learned about
an uncle who was killed. Can you tell me about that?
>> 1944, yes.
I think it was 22 November.
And we had telegrams
from other people that had
been killed earlier in the war.
But this particular one came.
And I guess we were thinking
now is getting he'll be all right.
Anyway, the telegram came, and I
remember and I was there and my mother was
there and the old aunt was there.
His wife was there.
She was only 22 or 20, something.
And with the baby and the baby was just young.
So that upset the family a lot. It really did.
>> And what was his name?
>> We called Chick, but his name was Charles Frederick.
>> Ultimately, how did you find out
about the end of the war in Europe?
How did that news come to you?
>> I'd be on the radio for the first I'm sure,
and then it would be in the papers
the next day and so on.
And so everybody was relieved
and talking to one another about it.
And in the village,
it was time to celebrate.
And so they organize
some get together party in the pub and around the pub.
And I wasn't old enough to go.
But I did watch from a bedroom window,
and people were getting a little tipsy,
a little excited there.
And they were serving the kids,
15 year old boys beer.
And of course, they soon could not handle it,
and they were falling all over and boys that
I looked up to, were in no shape.
I was a little bit disappointed about that, I remember,
but I got over it and I was only small.
>> Your sense for what was going on
was probably a little different from theirs.
>> Yes.
>> They were closer to that age
where they might have to serve.
>> Yes. That would be true.
>> So the war ended in Europe,
but did you have a sense for it continuing in the Pacific
and ultimately the dropping
of the atomic bombs, did that register?
>> Yes, I knew a little bit about it,
I've learned a lot since,
and I'm not sure how much I knew then and there.
But no, there was a big relief,
I was out of Europe
and the Japanese deserved what they got.
So that was a different situation
in some respects to the German situation.
And the aggravation,
the feeling towards them was different.
Because we didn't see that some of these people
return from over there until much later.
>> And since the war
was basically all you had ever known,
how did the end of the war change your life?
>> Gradually, we were able to
get more and different food a bit like COVID.
The place starts to open up.
You can go to the cinema more easily,
you can travel more easily.
It's a lightning of attitudes and
really lightning of the way people lived.
They weren't under threat
of fear the way they had been previously.
>> What were your hopes
and dreams for the future when you
were coming out of the war and as a young teenager?
>> Well, first of all,
was to get the better education
or the best education you could so work hard at school,
and we had just a small village school,
so it all happened from there.
So I was grateful for that.
And it was only not until much later that I thought
about earning a living
and making a living doing anything of it.
And I guess because in the village,
it's just practical life in a way.
You work on the farm, you work on equipment.
So I became an engineer.
And I never had thought about it.
Mother wanted me to be an auctioneer,
but I never went that way.
>> So did you remember at all learning about
the Germans persecution of
civilians and then the murder of the Jewish people?
>> No. I didn't know about that.
I don't know when I did know, but yes,
I did know, obviously, eventually,
but it would be probably
towards teenage or something like that.
It wasn't talked about it.
A lot of the troops who
came back from the war never ever talked to it about it,
never talked to their families.
They don't know what they did or where they
went it was so awful.
And I think that
that was such a situation that remained for our time.
My wife's father was over in
the Europe war theater for 4-5 years.
And he never talked to family about it at all,
but he came home and Ann, was the name,
she hadn't seen him for a while and
she screamed and then take that man away.
I wish I don't suppose help him in.
But she hadn't seen
him in all that while. Didn't know him.
She lived with her mother and grandma,
and this was some intruder that had just arrived.
>> I've heard other stories like that,
when people and just how
hard that is on the returning soldier,
but there's nothing that they could have done.
>> No. It's a very delicate time for relationships.
>> So how did your community commemorate the war?
Was there a sense of commemoration?
>> Well, the
weren't as many that got
killed as they were in the First World War.
In the First World War, they built a special room it was
garden with a stone monument in there and their names.
In our church, what they did
was just put a plaque on the wall behind
the Lectin and had the names
of the people who were on there.
And my uncle was one
and another child who was in the next door house.
He got killed somewhere.
And there was only seven or eight, perhaps,
so some of them,
I don't remember now.
Out of the various families in the village.
>> So how did you eventually
come to immigrate to the United States?
>> I after I left you University.
I took a job in a place called Peterborough,
which is about 25 miles from Excellent.
And I worked there,
and then I left there for
a few years and then came back again.
And then when electronics were starting to
be introduced more and more into engine controls.
That company, which was Massey Ferguson
formed a development team in Toronto.
And so I was asked if I would like to come across to be
part of that team representing
the engine company. So we did.
And we had brought three children with us.
And then after three years,
the same group offered me a job
in Detroit and a different better job.
So we moved to Detroit and then two years later,
we moved to Georgia.
And we've been here ever since,
until I've been retired,
and I worked for Caterpillar ultimately,
but yeah, it was just an invitation to come over.
I don't know that that we would do the same again,
but we've enjoyed it,
and it's been different.
And there you go to say that.
I can't remember what it was consequence obviously.
>> So what year was this then that
you went to Toronto and then they came.
>> We came to Canada Toronto in January 1982.
And then we stayed there for three years,
Detroit for two years.
So we've been in Georgia a long time,
but we've been living in different places
and ultimately caterpillar bought our company.
And I was getting near to retirement,
but they allowed me to have a home
office rather than move us
all to the kids had gone,
but move us to Peoria,
which wasn't a pleasant thought.
>> How old were your kids when you moved to Canada?
>> The oldest one was a girl, 16.
Next one, 14, boy.
Very difficult to settle.
Missed his football. And other things.
He's done well since he's been
here, he's an attorney now.
And then the third one has done well, she's a girl.
My older one stayed in Canada when we
left met boyfriend and she stayed married,
been married 25 years,
20 to 30 years.
And she stayed up there,
but the other two came down
and one of them is house attorney at
Cross Bank and the younger one is
the defact director for Carroll County.
So pleased with what they've done.
>> So what did you notice as the biggest differences
between England and Canada and then the United States?
>> We found Canada to be a bit of a halfway house.
You could still get a fair amount of British type stuff,
the manufacturers of tea and all sorts
of grocery type products, cookies, particularly.
They would be dealing with Canada because
it was part of the Empire
and there was preferred terms and stuff.
When we came to Detroit,
it was very different.
And we found the people were probably not as
kindly in some respects as the Canadians and Americans,
too, are always interested
when they talk to us to hear our accent,
some immediately stop talking.
But other ones get into it,
but when we came down to the sale,
particularly, and that was very different food stuffs,
the restaurants things that we used to eat.
We still eat at home because I make sure we
can do a version of what we
used to have with the beats and stuff.
But it was very different down here.
And there was quite a lot of rivalry
we detected between the Southerners and the Northerners.
And we've often been told that not us.
The Brits, I guess,
have got a little bit of advantage,
but the Northerners that come down here and settle are
often told that perhaps you'd find a 75 highway back.
They know where it is. And that's small talk and
not really to be considered serious.
I'm talking too much?
>> No. That's okay. So reflecting on your life,
how do you think that World War 2 and
its aftermath kind of affected your experiences?
How did that did it change any trajectory
you can imagine or how did it affect your life?
>> I think the war was sufficiently behind me,
by the time I started thinking
constructively about doing something
properly and doing something.
Perhaps it made more appreciative
of what you don't have the other way around.
And some of the experiences of the certain times.
And then immediately after the war I went down to
London in the University in
early 50 and there was
such a tremendous amount of
damage still in London at that time.
And I used to go across across London
from one side to the other to university.
And there were lots
of tumbled down buildings, bomb sites, whatever.
It was it's been cleaned up a lot in
the last 40 years, 30 years.
But it's obvious.
And there were still people,
talking about how they went into the shelters and into
the underground and to get
themselves safe and things that happened.
So it also had some effect on say be more cautious,
be more careful with
your money and everything you became.
I do remember that transition and feeling
you become more aware that you're
aware of what you have and you don't go
and be extravagant in any way.
>> Why do you think it's important
for students to learn about
history of World War 2 and
the Holocaust and history in general?
>> If you don't remember it and
learn things happen again,
and then today some of the things that do go on,
it's almost like the population is out of
control. And that's worrying.
>> And, you talked a little bit about appreciation,
for what you have.
What do you hope that people
will take away from learning about
your childhood and your family story?
>> I hope they won't be bored.
And there are some other little things
that I should probably forgot to throw
in aside that lightened the discussion.
But, if they can
get some form of appreciation of things have been bad and
you don't know you need to look after what you
have and be serious
about life and not
just rebellious of the state that we're in here
with the two party system and honestly,
I see that as awful.
>> Are you still a UK citizen
or did you become a US citizen?
>> We were UK, and we became Canadian.
And then we ultimately not ultimately,
but after I've been here about three to five years,
we made the change,
and then the three children,
Caroline didn't because she stayed in Canada.
She was a Canadian, but the other two
became American citizens and very proud of it.
And the grand grandsons,
too they all American boys.
>> So is there anything I haven't
asked you about that you'd like to share?
>> If I just quick.
I haven't added stuff on here.
We didn't talk about prisoners of war,
we had prison camps for the prisoners of war
right next to the village and say not,
but very few miles away.
And then we had a place for
displaced persons even closer.
And then the Italian prisoners
of war were in the village,
and they seemed to be a privilege and they were
allowed to prefabricated,
bungalows, ranch style housing
and they worked on the farms.
They worked in the village,
doing manual work and they were very skillful.
Both the Germans and the Italians made
simple wooden toys for the children and stuff.
So there was no feelings
towards them in the everyday life.
Some of them married, ultimately,
some of girls from the village,
both German and Italian prisoners.
Just the war was caught up in
the a lot of the Germans didn't want to fight.
>> And those who married the village women,
did they end up staying in England,
or did they go back to Germany?
>> And some English guys brought
some German ladies back and they lived in our village.
But then mostly,
I think they went where
the ladies wanted to be so that when they were
staying in the main but one English guy he
brought his German wife back and they lived in
the village and became part of the scenery.
>> This reminds me of something.
So when you talked about the American soldiers,
you mentioned that you saw
white soldiers and you also saw black soldiers.
Do you remember they interact with
the villagers the same way
and did they interact with each other?
>> I was like young then, but from what
I hear the folks talking
when you're a kid you're in a room with parents
and relatives and stuff and they get loose lipped,
and you hear things that perhaps you shouldn't hear.
So there was some concern about all of them.
But we weren't prejudiced
in any way against black people because we
had some in England and one
was their comedian and
a star and everybody thought it was wonderful.
And that's all went fed down
and they weren't regarded as the bad guys.
But the American forces certainly tried
keep the separation going and
wouldn't let them go
to the village dance and stuff like that.
The white guys were going to so they were
being persecuted a little bit.
They were kept separate by by the forces.
But there weren't that many of them where we were,
but the ones that we were
really involved with were the white ones.
>> So you just told me about the prisoners of war.
So were there any other things
that we didn't talk about that you want to?
>> I just read it before I came,
I did that already.
We had a saying, and I'm sure you've heard it,
which was I didn't know about when I was there,
but I said American troops we know saying now.
We're known as overpaid oversexed and over here.
I don't know if you've heard that before,
I think you have.
I'm not committing to it. I wanted
to mention this, which is of interest.
When they did the massive bombing raid on Coventry
which flattened it and the cathedral
was smashed and burnt.
That need to have happened because but just before that,
and I've heard since
a German submarine off the coast of America,
I think it got stranded or sunk and they found on
that submarine a unit,
which we call the enigma unit and they cut it into
half [inaudible] and it
went to a place called Bletchley Park,
and you've probably seen the movie.
And they eventually crack that code,
and they cracked it just before
that raid happened on Coventry.
And Churchill the government, I guess,
force decided that they
wouldn't play the hand and protect Coventry and
the people there and
the bombing raid take place because they had
other bigger things and they didn't want
the Germans to know that they had already cracked it.
So a lot of people were sacrifice that was
a bit bush, I thought.
>> When did that come out?
When was that made public that information?
Years later or right after the war?
>> Well, afterwards, it was secret for a long time.
Blech it was like, a place
that was something going strange in there.
We don't know what it's all about and a lot of ladies
were involved in that.
I think I've mentioned that.
I remember troops coming
back from the various finishes of war.
That took quite a while afterward
and everything was on ration and furniture was on ration.
Gasoline was red color,
travelling was in commercial vehicles. That's the ration.
>> Are you doing that?
>> I can see one here,
one second. Got it.
>> And this same thing again it's probably a better one.
>> Wonderful. Thank you.
>> And that's Eddie Skies.
>> Got it. Thank you.
>> We came in 82, and
I think it should have still been around,
but I don't think we had all the computer access and
stuff then that you could do
your own researching and but anyway,
some of the people we used to think
about the fall by the wayside now after all these years.
>> Well, thank you so much for speaking with me today
and sharing your story for
the legacy series I really appreciate it.
Thank you again for your time.
>> Is there any chances you get copy all these?