>> This is James Newberry.
I'm here with James Pack on Monday, December 8,
2014, at the Sturgis Library
at Kennesaw State University.
And Mr. Pack, could you please state your full name?
>> James Pack. No middle name.
>> And when and where were you born?
>> I was born in West Virginia in 1923.
>> And could you describe your childhood and your family?
>> Well, I was born in West Virginia,
but I don't remember anything
there because I was so young.
We moved to Pennsylvania for
about maybe a year and I started school in Pennsylvania,
but we moved to Ohio the following year and then from
first grade all the way through
high school in little town called East Liverpool, Ohio.
In our family, there was six boys and three girls.
And right now, I'm the only one left out of
the family and of course, thank God for that.
Little small town in East Liverpool,
Ohio was nice,
small town and I went to school,
graduated from high school,
and played football track.
And like I was telling you that I
was inducted to
the Athletic Hall of Fame not too long ago.
And my younger brother,
he was in the Hall of Fame down there
too because he was
much better football player than I was.
Of course, I was a better track man than him.
And my other brother little older than me,
when the war broke out, he joined the Navy,
and he spent 25 years in the navy.
And my other brother, he was in
the army and he spent
all his time up in the A Lucian Islands.
And my brother in the navy's funny thing,
all the time he's in the Navy,
all that time during the war,
he's sitting on Staten Island, New York.
Everybody else is going on ships overseas.
And when the Korean War broke out,
my younger brother, he was in the Korean War.
And life in a little small town in
East Liverpool, it was nice.
In fact, I go up there at least once a year and still,
a lot of people are still around it I know.
And growing up,
my dad was a minister and you know what that meant.
I had to go to church every Sunday,
morning, noon, and night.
Prayer meeting on Wednesdays.
But it was nice.
And we didn't have any problems.
>> What were your parents' names?
>> My dad's name was Philip and
my mother's name was Cale Irene Pak.
>> And did your mother work?
>> No. My mother never worked, no.
My dad worked in the steel mill.
He was a millwright, and
he taught us boys a whole lot of things.
That's why when I grew up,
I don't call electrician,
I don't call a plumber,
I don't call a carpenter,
I can do all that myself.
Save a lot of money that way.
>> So could you describe
the town of East Liverpool, what it looked like?
>> It's a little small town.
It sits right on the Ohio river
and it's right on the border of Pennsylvania,
it's only about 45 miles from Pittsburgh and
it's about 36 miles below Youngstown, Ohio.
And right across the river is
West Virginia town called Chester, West Virginia.
And years ago, well,
every spring,
the Ohio river before they built the dams and all that,
there was always flooding.
And in fact, that was about 1936,
'37 back in those days.
Every year, the Ohio river would rise up and
if there was a few people who live close to the river,
of course they had to evacuate them,
but where we lived,
we didn't have to bother with it.
And the Pennsylvania Railroad
used to run through there at one time.
Their passing trains used to come through there,
and then later on,
they they quit, but of course,
the freight still rumbled through there.
>> And you had a special interest in trains?
>> Yeah. I've always loved trains,
in fact, I got a layout in my garage at home.
>> And that started back then seeing
the train headed to Pittsburgh, is that correct?
>> Yeah. The trains going to Pittsburgh and going west,
they would go to Stubervill then down near there,
they would branch out and go to Columbus, Ohio.
I didn't live too far from the,
I forget the name of the big yard.
Conway Yard, at that time,
one of the biggest railroad yards in the in the country.
We didn't live too far from and I used to go up there
and watch them humping cars and all that.
I don't know if you know what that means.
>> Could you describe it?
>> Well, a train pushes a car up on the hill
and they call the hump and then if they make up trains,
one go this way, the car go this
way and maybe another freight car
would go this way, like that.
That's what they call hump in cars
and and the makeup trains that way.
I used to go up a lot of times and sit and watch them.
>> So what was the relationship interaction
between Blacks and Whites and East Liverpool?
>> We got along fine.
In fact, my bestfriend was a White fellow.
And in fact,
well, all of us, we never had no problem.
We never had any fights with each other.
And of course, at one time,
I guess coming out of school,
I guess some fellow was picking on me and my brother,
Lolton and me grabbed him and
beat him up, but nothing happened.
In fact, family lived right next door.
The name was Samerson Paul
and and I forgot the other one's name.
In fact, Paul was in World War II,
and he got killed in the Battle of the Bulge.
Him and I was the same age.
And there's a lot of
families and we were always friendly with everybody.
>> How did the Depression hit your town?
>> Terrible. Nobody working.
They had the soup kitchens.
It was lucky that we could had a plot
of land where we could grow vegetables. My dad had that.
And he got laid off of the steel mill during that time.
And they had a soup kitchen and
everybody lined up and
go get a big pot and bring it home and eat.
It was rough.
Not a happy time.
And then when Roosevelt got to be president, well,
the things of course start changing.
In Europe, Hitler was starting his stuff and
so even before the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor,
the United States was gearing up
anyway because England needed help,
and so, they shipped a lot of stuff
to England before we ever got into the war.
>> So were you seeing reports of
this in newspapers or
hearing it on the radio at that time?
>> In the newspapers and radios.
Didn't have TV back there. Of course, you know that.
>> Did you go to the movie?
>> Yeah. In fact, in
that small town, you wouldn't believe it.
We had 1, 2, 3, 4
movies houses in that little small town.
There was only about 20,000 people in the town.
Being youngsters, we didn't have any money so we
used to hustle junk,
aluminum brass and that stuff and take it
down to these brothers
on the junk yard and
that's how we got money to go to the movies.
And especially on Saturdays we were going
on one movie and come out
of that and go to the cross street to another one,
looking at all in Westerns.
Hoot Gibson and that's a cowboy.
That was before John Wayne.
And what was Tim? I forget his last name now.
And then across the river was a park.
We used to go across there
in the summertime to the park.
And of course, West Virginia was segregated,
but we go over there to the park,
we would have no trouble at the park.
And me and my brother,
we used to like to ride the cycle.
We'd get off, take a ride,
get off, go around, get back on, go up again.
That's the only thing we ever rode with a cycle.
Those were good old days.
>> So what year did you graduate from high school?
>> 1942.
>> But your mother had passed away the previous year?
>> No. She passed away at
August of 1941 and because I started my last year,
September 1941, I graduated in 1942.
>> And how did she encourage you?
>> What she told me before she died,
she told me be sure you finish
school, don't quit school. Be sure you finish school.
I don't know why she was telling me that because
I had never thought about quitting school,
but I guess she felt that
the war clouds were coming.
So I guess she figured that I would
probably quit school and go to the steel mill and work,
but no, I hadn't had any plans on doing that.
No, I finished and graduated from high school.
>> So you graduated in '42,
but what's your memory of Pearl Harbor in December '41?
>> When I used to work at a grocery store on the weekends
and I had came home and I was going to take me a nap.
And I took my nap and I woke up and I turned the radio on
and I heard talk
about dropping bombs on Pearl Harbor and I said,
my goodness and I said,
well, I guess, we're going to war.
That was on Sunday and then right after that,
my brother older than me he said,
I'm going to join the Navy.
I said, well, of course,
he had graduated before me and he joined the Navy and he
spent about 25 years in
the Navy and ended up as a Chief Petty Officer.
And then my other brother,
he was working up in Pennsylvania
and he was drafted in the army.
He went to Fort Bragg and then after war was declared,
they shipped him up to the Aleutian Islands,
and that's where he spent all his time
up there in ice and cold.
>> So after you heard about Pearl Harbor
and war was declared,
did you expect that you would serve no question or not?
>> Well, I didn't think about it
because my parents had passed away,
and my older sisters and brothers, they weren't home.
And after I got out of high school,
I went worked in steel mill because my younger brother,
my younger sister, they were still going to school,
so my other two brothers,
they were gone in the service.
In fact, I had to take care of them
financially, working.
So I never thought
about going into the service until of course,
things got so heavy, well,
I was drafted in
1943 and went to
the induction center up in Cleveland, Ohio.
And the guy said,
well, what branch of service you want to go in?
I told him, well,
me and my buddy, let's see,
shucks let's go on Marine Corps.
We're going to fight, let's join
the badge guys are going to be fighting.
So the Marines are where we're going.
So that's how we got in
the Marine Corps, but
after we got to North Carolina and got off that bus,
I said, I should have stayed at home.[LAUGHTER]
>> Well, let's go back a little
bit and then we'll come back up to that.
You graduated and went to work in a steel mill?
>> Yeah.
>> At that point. And how
long were you working there before you were drafted?
>> Well, let's see, I graduated in June '42
and there wasn't no problem getting hired,
so '42 and then
November '43 that's when I went in the Marine Corps.
>> And what were you doing in the steel mill?
>> At first I worked at Coke plant.
It's a hot dirty job where
they take coal and make coke out
of it and I didn't get along with Foreman,
so I quit and
then I got a job up the river up
in American Bridge Company,
and I didn't stay there long.
Then I came back to the steel mill and I worked in
the finishing mill where we cut coils,
you seen this steel rolled up.
Just different diameters, and that's what we used to cut
the bad ends off of them and that's
why I stayed until I was drafted.
>> And you were drafted in '43?
>> Yeah. I went in in '43,
November 3 when I went in the Marine Corps.
>> So how do you hear that you're being drafted?
>> You got a letter. [LAUGHTER]
>> And what did it say?
>> It say greetings from FDR, Frank Delano Roosevelt.
I don't know how it was worded,
but we need your services
or something to something that you
have to report to the draft board.
>> How did you feel when you got that letter?
>> I felt good. There was
one fellow he wanted to go to
the service so bad every time he went there,
they turned him down because of his health,
but he would cry all the time, but no I didn't feel bad.
>> And what test did they run in the draft board?
>> Check your heart and that's about all.
You go through the line and check your heart and say,
oh, he is all right, let him go.
>> So you decided to join
the Marine Corps and you
were among the first African-Americans?
>> They called us the original Marfa Pointers.
In fact, before the war
they didn't have no blacks in the Marine Corps.
And I guess Roosevelt signed I
forgot the number of the order back in 1941,
fair employment or something like that and
that opened the gates for blacks to go in Marine Corps.
But the officers Vandergriff
and General Hokum and
the fellows they didn't want Blacks and the Marine Corps.
In fact, they had to build a separate base
in North Carolina and Camp June for the Blacks.
And the first recruits that went in,
they're the guys that build up
the base before I got there.
>> And what times
did they go through building up that base?
>> I guess they started in
1942 when they started building up that base.
Of course, when I got there,
we were in tents in huts they called them.
And scene for heat
and they said it didn't get cold in North Carolina,
but we liked froze.
>> So you first arrived in
North Carolina in November of 1943?
>> Yeah.
>> And can you describe the introduction to
North Carolina just general life
there in southern society?
>> When we
got to North Carolina and got off the bus,
and then get all these sergeants
that meet the bus and all these new recruits,
and they would be hollering at you,
straighten up, and then
after you go in and you
get issued your clothes
and the clothes you brought with you,
you put them in the bag and had to ship them back home.
And then every morning, you got to get out there,
you go to chow I think
about five or six o'clock regularly,
and then you go to chow, and after that,
you go back to the barracks and get your clothes,
get your rifle, and you hit the drill field.
You do that six days a week,
from morning until night.
And every once in a while the officers come around,
you have to have inspection and make sure
your bunks are made up,
and I know you've seen
movies where they come in and inspect
and throw a coin on it [LAUGHTER] and if if they don't,
they make you do it all over again.
But when I got there,
all the DIs were black DIs all the White DIs had gone,
and we still had the White officers. [OVERLAPPING]
>> DI being drill instructors?
>> Yeah, drill instructors.
And we had some tough drill instructors.
I remember harsh Mark Johnson.
A lot of them they were tough on us.
They said they were going to make Marines out of us,
and they certainly did.
>> And Johnson became the namesake.
>> Yeah. In fact,
they renamed Montford Point Camp.
The named it Camp Johnson.
>> So how far was Montford Point from Lejeune?
>> It's right into Lejeune.
>> Okay.
>> It's part of Lejeune, yeah.
And I think we had about eight weeks.
You got six weeks of training and
then two weeks on a rifle range.
And then after two weeks on
a rifle range, you got liberty.
But then I came home
for about seven days, and then I came back.
But I didn't go back out,
in fact, in
a little town called Jacksonville is right there,
I never went out but one time in
Jacksonville because I grew
up in Ohio and
I knew the south was segregated and all that,
so I never went out because I said, well,
there's no sense of me going out
there because I'm not used to
that and I don't
want to hurt no one and I don't want to get hurt,
so I just stay here on the base.
>> But you did go out once?
>> Just once.
>> Can you describe that?
>> Me and I think two or three other guys
just went out to Jacksonville,
just walked down the street and that was about it.
Then come on back to the base.
>> Did you have interaction
with White soldiers from Lejeune?
>> No. In fact,
I've never seen any of them,
not until we got shipped out,
and we got on a train,
and went up to Norfolk, Virginia,
and got on the big ship,
the USS James O'Hara went down through
the Panama Canal and over to Hawaii.
>> So how long were you in Hawaii?
>> I think we got there and I think
we were only there about a month,
and then we left there and went over to Maui,
and we stayed on Maui for
maybe a couple of months, in the meantime,
in fact, there was a big ammo dump there and we
had to load ammo on
trucks and they took them down to the ships,
we only stayed there about a month.
And then after that,
we got on a ship.
I remember the name of it,
USS Pierce, and had no idea where we were going.
When you get on a ship, they don't tell you anything.
Where we going? I don't know.
And then the day before D-Day comes,
and then they tell you,
well, you going to hit the beach.
Well, our first battled was Saipan,
and the night before,
I don't think anybody went to sleep that night,
and in the Navy,
the galley was always open,
you could, drink coffee and whatever,
and then the chaplain would come in and everybody
wanted the chaplain and pray for you,
and then you go up on deck,
you could see the flashing lights,
from the Navy gun shelling the island.
And then the next day is a day, D-Day.
[OVERLAPPING]
>> So can you
tell me a little bit about life on these ships?
You're spending a lot of time going from Virginia,
through the Panama canal,
into the Pacific, I
have certain assumptions about life on a ship.
Did you like it, did you dislike it,
what was good about it, what was bad about it?
>> Well, when we left Norfolk, Virginia,
it was raining,
and storming, and everything,
but a lot of guys got seasick,
but I didn't get, they they said,
well, best way not to get seasick is eat something,
I guess evidently some of them guys
didn't and some of them got seasick,
but I never got seasick.
When we got through the Panama canal, we figured, well,
we got to the other side,
the Pacific side and we said, well,
maybe they'll let us off and walk around a little bit,
but that didn't happen.
The officers got off, but we didn't.
We just had to stay stay there,
and then next morning we sailed for Hawaii.
But on board ship,
there was a lot of us Black Marines, White.
We didn't have no problem.
We played cards and things like that,
talking to each other and telling
different stories and all that.
>> So the units were segregated,
but on a ship like that,
you would mix with White soldiers? [OVERLAPPING]
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Was there a sense of where people were from back
home or was everyone just in it together at that point?
>> At that point, I think all in it together,
where you were from or anything like that, no.
>> So we'll go back forward to the landing at Saipan.
So this would have been D-Day which corresponds to
D-Day in the European theater,
June 6th, 1944?
Yeah. Everybody's talking about D-Day then they
always think about D-Day in Europe for June 6,
and I always tell people,
"We had a D-Day June 15th on Saipan,
so that's our D-Day."
[LAUGHTER]
>> But what was your knowledge leading up to June 15?
>> What you mean when you say? [OVERLAPPING]
>> How much did you know about
the upcoming invasion there?
>> Nothing. [LAUGHTER] Not a thing.
>> Not until the day before?
>. Not until the day before we knew where
we were going in Saipan.
We never never heard of it,
I don't think anybody on the ship ever heard of Saipan.
Saipan is in the Marianas,
that chain where Saipan and
right next Saipan about a mile
across the water was Tinian.
And later on, that's where the B-29 bombers came up.
In south of Saipan and Tinian was Guam.
>> And these were islands that Japan
had taken earlier in the war? [OVERLAPPING]
Oh, yeah.
>> So prior to this invasion,
what had been your duties as a Marine?
>> The Black Marines, they were only depot companies and
ammo companies and they
had 51st and 52nd defense battalions.
But the 51st and 52nd,
they never saw action.
In fact, they sent them to
the Marshall Islands after
the Marshall Islands was secured.
But because all we did depot companies,
and ammo companies that load
these ships with supplies, ammo,
food, medical supplies, all that stuff.
That's what the ammo companies, depot companies did.
And then, of course, when the invasion company,
you had to unload that stuff and of course,
you couldn't do that until after the beach
was secured so he can come
in and then some of
us stayed on the ship and to unload it,
and then the other guys would be on the beach down
there getting stuff and piling up.
Then later on when especially on
side Pan when the island was secured,
we built of course
the Sea Bass came in and built quants and huts for
the supplies and then we built some huts.
Of course, they were for ourselves and for
the officers and I worked
with some White fellows from New York.
They were electricians and helped them
supply electricity for the officers, the quarters.
Of course, we didn't have any, but they had
and they had portable generators and all that for them.
In fact, I got along real well these fellows,
in fact they said when I get out,
if I wanted to come to New York and work with us,
of course, I didn't do that though.
>> So during these periods of
waiting prior to these invasions,
did you see were
there United Service organizations
coming out there providing entertainment?
Were there movies being screened?
>> I don't know who they were. They came
down on Saipan and they
had for entertainment and
that's the only time I remember they came now
one night and quite a lot of times
after the day is done sometimes we play
ball and I don't
know where you probably heard the name, Bobby Troup.
The guy that his wife is famous singer, what's her name?
I forgot her name.
Well, in fact, he was a Marine anyway.
And he had a band and they came over there.
>> Mr. Pack, let's return to we're
onboard ship preparing for the invasion of Saipan.
Can you describe the night before you said nobody slept.
People were talking to Chaplains.
Can you go into more detail on that evening?
>> If I remember right,
I guess everything was quiet,
of course, as far as any activity.
No one was playing cards or anything like that,
and everybody was real
quiet and wondering what it was going to be like
when daylight come and we hit the beach
and most of us went up on deck and of course,
you could see the flashes of
guns from the Navy shell on the island.
And then some of us would go down in
the galley and get some coffee
and everything was quiet because at that time,
we'd never been in combat before
and we didn't know what to expect.
And so everybody kept to
themselves and kept quiet
because we don't know what was going to happen.
>> What did you know about the Japanese?
What had you been told about individual soldiers?
What did you see in news reels and things?
How did you feel about the Japanese at that point?
>> I guess, all of us,
I know we felt well either they going to kill me,
I'm going to kill them, but I'm going to kill them.
I'm going to get to them first before you
get to me because
we understood that they
didn't believe in taking no prisoners,
so we're not going to take any
either and so that's the way we all felt.
And we all of course actually,
we all had IM ones
and I forget how many cartridges we had,
I think I forgot how many we had.
Of course, we knew how
the Japanese were as far
as they always talking about dying for an emperor,
so we're just going to help you then.
>> So what was your view from the ship of Saipan?
>> Well, when daylight come and went up on
deck and of course,
you know you're quite away from the shore
and all you could see the hills and all that.
And you could see the Navy ships shells
exploding and then airplanes
dropping their bombs on there.
It was quite a sight to see.
As long as you were on
ship and didn't have to get off
at that time, at that point.
Of course, our captain,
Captain Adams and his aide
and a few more of them I think they went in,
I think about the fourth wave.
But some of us stayed on ship and unloaded.
And I guess the first night on the beach,
I guess the captain Captain Adam got killed.
He was the first one Black Marine
to be killed in World War II.
Young Marine from Columbus, Ohio,
Kenneth Tibbs, because I was from
Ohio and he was from Ohio,
we were good buddies.
And I was sorry when I heard he
got killed the first night on the beach.
>> At what point did you.
>> Go on the beach? I think we
went in after the ship was unloaded.
I think a couple of days later day plus three.
That's when we got off our ship and went on
the beach and we stayed on the beach.
All the supplies from our ship,
and then we had to get them on trucks
and shipped on up a little farther into the island.
>> Were there still signs of destruction?
>> Around the beach?
Oh, yeah, because in fact,
one White fellow,
he was really a nice fellow.
I think they called him
White because he had
White hair because a young fellow though.
And was on one of them arm trucks as they called
them because he lost
his life there going in on that arm truck.
And we were sorry to hear that.
He had a lot of wreckage on the beach.
Put it this way.
If you ever been in the military and been in combat,
it's it's really something you don't want to do.
A lot of people think they're gun hole and all that
but it's a lot different when you really get there.
>> So did you take part in setting
up an encampment there in Saipan?
>> Yeah because after the island was secured,
they moved us up the island a little
bit and we set up a camp up there for
our depot companies and any officers
and there was a White group,
I forget what they called them,
but they did set up camps,
and they were Marines,
but that's what they
did and we all worked together with them.
Some of us worked to work with them and then some of them
had to go down to
the beach and and still unload the ships coming
in because after our ship was unloaded and all that,
because they left because at that time
always more ships coming in, bringing in supplies.
I was lucky enough to work with
these electricians and I didn't have to
[LAUGHTER] go down there
to the beach and unload them ships.
>> Did you get tired of that unloading loading cycle
in that new location?
>> Not really. I don't,
really not to me because we figured,
well, it's something we have to do.
And let's do it and the quicker we can get it
done and sooner we
can get this thing over where we can get back home.
>> And how long were you in Saipan?
>> We stayed on Saipan '43 and we left
Saipan April 45 to go into Okinawa,
the battle of Okinawa.
>> How is that different from the first invasion?
>> Well, the good part about by Okinawa,
we didn't get there until about D plus five,
which is about five days later
after the original ones went in.
I think it was the first and
sixth marine divisions, Saipan,
was with the second and fourth Marine divisionubt
on Okinawa we were with the first and six
but D plus five is a whole lot different but there was
still still a lot of battling
going on around there because at that time,
the Japanese with them Kamikaze I would call them,
they didn't care going
to ships and blow them up and all that.
We were fortunate, in the ship we went in on Okinawa,
I don't remember the name of that one,
but we had to load that ship with
ammo and a whole lot
of stuff more ammo than anything else?
These big 155 millimeter shells,
I guess about about that long, about that big around.
You think you could carry one of them?
[LAUGHTER]
>> Doubtful. [LAUGHTER]
>> It was a difference in Saipan and Okinawa.
>> What are some of the other
differences between the two?
The period after D
plus five getting set up there at Okinawa.
>> Well, we went in, of course,
we we were near the airfield
and unloading ships and stacking up on supplies,
like ammo and food and all that stuff.
And that's what we did
and then while we were still be a near the airport,
one night, the couple of Japanese planes.
The spotted them coming in to
the airfield and the sergeant said,
oh, let's go let's get out and get your rifles.
We got to go to the airport.
The Japanese land on the airport.
We got to go down there and help them out.
And before we got to the airport,
they said, well, we don't have to go any farther.
They they shot them all up,
the killed all of them.
And they didn't shoot them down from the air
because they had some night fighters in
the area and they didn't
want to shoot our night fighters down.
So they just let them come on in and
land on the airfield and then when they got there,
they they killed them all,
so we didn't have to go to the airfield.
And then later on after the island was secured,
we they moved us way up the other end of
the island and we set up camp there.
And we stayed there until they dropped the atomic bomb.
And then of course, before that,
we were all packed and ships were out there
waiting on us for get on to invade Japan.
And then when we found out they
dropped atomic bomb and everybody said,
well, the war is over.
Well, now we can go home so they thought well,
I would at that time,
but there wasn't anything
for us to do because the ship was loading all that.
So we used to play ball
and I broke my ankle sliding in the home plate.
And my sisters and brothers,
they never believe me when I told them that but I
got my outfit was scheduled to go to China.
They weren't going to home,
they were going to China.
And I told the sergeant, well,
I got to go to China with you guys because I'm not going.
No, you can't go with us.
You got a broken ankle, you can't even.
I could walk but,
you've been with him for about almost two years
and but they wouldn't let me go with him.
So they took me to sick bay
and then put me on a plane and shipped me to
Guam and I got on a hospital shipping
and ended up in Oakland, California, Naval Hospital.
And then I stayed there so they said, well,
you live on the East Coast that area,
so you can either go to
Great Lakes Naval Hospital or Philadelphia.
And then I got thinking with Great Lakes
that Chicago and I could catch a train and go right home.
So I said, I'd go to Great Lakes
and that's where I ended up in
Great Lakes Naval Hospital
until I got discharged in 1946.
I had my leg and a cast up to here for three months.
And then they put a walking cast on there.
And then after they figured out was well enough,
then that's when they discharged me.
But I know out in Oakland, California,
there was a colonel came through there.
"Any of your fellows who want to reenlist,
when you get ready get well.
Well, I sign you up right now."
I told him, "Not me."
[LAUGHTER]
>> But Why didn't you want to reenlist?
>> I don't know.
I figured I wanted to go back home and,
go to college and play football.
I realized I can hardly run,
so I can't do that.
>> So did you hear any more from
or about your fellow soldiers who went on to China?
>> Years later,
because they they started what they
called the Montford Point Marine Association,
and that's where I found out where they went to China.
And in fact, my first sergeant,
he was one of the officers
in the Montford Marine Association,
and they had a reunion thing in Philadelphia one year.
And I met a lot of that I had been
with and in every year,
they always had a reunion in Washington DC,
San Francisco, LA, all over the country.
>> So when you were discharged at Great Lakes,
did what did you do at that point?
>> After I got discharged, I went home.
At that time, they had what they call 52 weeks.
You could get paid for
52 weeks if you didn't go back to work.
At that time at that time,
if if you had a job
before you went back to the job you had.
And so I said I'm going to sit around here for 52 weeks,
and after a couple of weeks,
I went back to Steel Mill
and worked and saved some money,
and then I got to thinking.
I got to get out of Steel Mill you
got to be something better than this.
So me and a friend of mine,
we went to Detroit,
Michigan to electrical school.
And went there for about a year and a half,
and got our diplomas and all of that.
And sad part to buy it couldn't get a job.
And electricians back in the days,
they made a lot of money.
In fact, I thought I had a job at
the tank arsenal up there in Michigan,
and I went out there and your personnel officer,
"Go down there to see something."
I forgot the guy's name.
And seeing him, he'd put you to work.
You went down there when the guys
saw me and saw my color,
[LAUGHTER] he talked about, no,
I haven't got time for the train nobody.
I said, "You don't have to train me."
"Well, I don't have time.
Go back up there and tell him that I don't need you."
So that's what happened with that.
But I did went took
a Civil Service exam with City Triton,
got a job in the water department
and spent 35 years with him,
not as an electrician.
I started out as
a mechanical helper and moved on up and when I
retired after 35 years
at administrative assistant reef when I retired.
>> So you spent your career in Detroit?
>> And can you tell me about your family?
>> Well, how can I say that?
Well, after the war,
of course, my brother stayed in the Navy,
and my brother in the Army,
well he went back to
Steel Mill and worked until he retired.
And my sisters, they all got married
and and one of them moved to New Jersey.
Two of them moved to New Jersey.
And the other one stayed in in Liverpool.
And my other brother,
he was in New Jersey.
And since I was in Detroit,
and my younger brother,
he was stayed in Liverpool for a while and well,
after the Korean War,
and I told him, "You want to come to Detroit,
and I get you a better job,
" and he came to Detroit and worked,
and he worked for the water department
until he passed away.
Of course, every year, I used to go back to
Liverpool for 4th July.
If I was off and all of us we still living.
We always got together for that period of time.
>> And you married? [LAUGHTER]
>> A small and significant factor.
>> I forget which year was it now.
Didn't stay married too long with that.
I've married twice and I got a divorce,
and and after I think
about eight years before I married again.
And I got married and
stayed married with her until she
passed away about three years ago.
>> What was her name? Anais. A-N-A-I-S.
>> And did you have children?
>> No children and stepchildren.
>> So tell me
about meeting some of
your fellow Marines again through
the Montford Point Marine Association?
>> I guess when I first saw
Sadam was in Philadelphia, Clouser,
it was this First Sergeant Clouser and,
I forgot the other guys' names.
There was some from Chicago,
and there was some from Pennsylvania,
and there was some from New York.
And some of them I served with in a 20 Depot Company.
And we always had
a nice time and had a banquet and everything and
talking about the old times together on the islands
and that's what we
did for about 2-3 days.
>> Did you serve in any leadership roles
with the association?
>> Yeah. I was, what they call in the Marine Corps,
My point Marines, I was
the parliamentarian that same as them.
In fact, I helped draw up the bylaws and
all of that for the Montford Marine Association.
And [NOISE] they always felt that they were going to get
a congressional charter and I tried to tell them,
you won't do it because
the Marine Corps League is
the only congressional chartered Marine.
It's like the second Marine Division,
all the associations, but not congressionally chartered.
So I stayed with the Mont Point Marines for a long time.
And then I decided I join the Marine Corps League,
which I thought was better because
the Mont Point Marines Association
figured if you didn't go through Montford Point,
you couldn't belong to it.
And I told him, I said, well,
it don't make sense.
He said what happens when
all of those old Montford Point Marines die off?
What do you got left? You don't have nothing.
So I joined the Marine Corps League
and I've been with them for over 30 years.
And with them, I went Junior Vice, Senior Vice,
and Department Commandant in Michigan,
and I served in
two years as the Department Commandant in Michigan.
And, of course,
the Marine Corps League naturally,
it's about 85% White fellows.
In fact, we don't have no problem.
In fact, I go to the conventions and all of that
and I didn't go
to the last one which was in my home state,
West Virginia, but I didn't go.
But before that, I went up to Grand Rapids, Michigan.
In fact, I've been every place
with them, California, Florida,
everywhere. Arizona, all over.
>> So how have you been recognized for your service?
>> How do you mean that?
>> What awards you've received,
the congressional gold medal?
Could you show that to us?
>> Yeah. Congressional gold medal.
>> If you just want to hold that up.
>> How is that?
>> Here about your chest.
>> What do you say?
>> A little bit higher.
>> Higher?
>> And tell me about the ceremony to receive this medal.
>> It was two days.
The first session, all the congressmen were there.
Congressman Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi,
John Boehner, and there was another one.
And there was two ladies.
One was from,
I think she's from North Carolina,
and one was from Florida.
And they did a lot
of reading and this and that and the other.
And then the next day,
it's when we got to medals,
we went to the marine barracks,
eighth and I Street in Washington, DC.
And that's when General Amos,
General Williams, and all the big wheels.
And they had a big ceremony,
the marine band played
and and they passed out these medals.
I was surprised there was
about 450 original Montford Point Marines
that there to get the gold medal.
>> And that was two years ago?
>> I think pretty sure it was two years ago.
>> So where do you keep your medal?
>> I keep it at home.
I got a case but right next to a cabinet at home.
And a lot of them,
well, I got
another Marine of
the Year for Department of Michigan medal.
It's smaller than this
but you can put that around your neck.
But these, I don't know where they had it made,
well, I have an idea where
they had it made but I won't say.
[LAUGHTER] But you can't do that,
unless you go to a jeweler and have him
do it and cost you about 300 bucks, I hear.
[LAUGHTER]
>> Well, so Mr. Park,
why did you agree to speak with me today?
>> Well, when, what's the guy's name?
He was telling me about to call me,
shut me at his name.
>> Fred Morton?
>> Yeah, Fred Morton called me and told me,
he said, some guy from
Kennesaw State want to talk to you.
I said, want to talk to me about what?
[LAUGHTER] He said, well,
you were an original Montford Point Marines
so he wants to talk to you.
I said, well, I said, okay.
[LAUGHTER] I said, I'll talk to him.
He said, well, he will be calling you.
And I said, don't,
I said, how am I going to get there?
He said, oh, don't worry about that.
I'll see that you get there.
And I haven't heard from Fred since.
[LAUGHTER]
>> Well, I can vouche Fred is very helpful.
[LAUGHTER] So do you
think it's important to
share your story and preserve this?
>> Yeah. I would
say there was a fellow from Midway Church,
called me and said he was having something
for World War II Marines
and he said since
somebody had told him about World War II.
And when we had a little debtor and all that,
and he was saying he never heard of Montford Point.
And I said, well.
And that's one reason why
when you called me by the Montford Point,
I said, there's a lot
of people never heard of Montford Point.
And didn't realize that
a lot of Black Marines came through Montford Point.
And in fact, I was at a grocery store
checking out and the girl saw
a cover I had on had a Marine on it and she said,
oh, you was in the Marines.
I said, yeah, I was in the Marines.
I said I was in WW2.
And she said, what is that?
I say, it's World War II. I said, where've you been?
[LAUGHTER] But I tell the truth,
I'm proud that I served in the Marine Corps.
And when I look back down,
because I always,
of course, begin with everybody say,
everybody can't be a Marine.
Only a chosen few can be marines.
So that's what I'm really proud of.
>> Well, thank you for your service and thank you
for sharing your experience today.
>> You're quite welcome anytime.