>> Well, thank you very much.
This is James Newberry,
and I'm here with Sheva Vapne on Tuesday,
October 24th, 2017 at
the Sturgis Library at Kennesaw State University.
And Ms. Vapne,
do you agree to this interview?
>> Yes.
>> Thank you. So we'll start at the beginning.
Could you tell me your full name?
>> My full name is Sheva Vapne, last name.
And I born in three, five, 1928 in Latvia, Riga.
>> And what was your maiden name?
>> Lapvincki.
>> So you were born in Riga.
So can you tell me your parents name?
>> Yes. My father was Yakov Lapvincki.
My mother was Dvoira Lapvincki.
My two brothers was killed in war
was Abraham Lapvincki and Samuel Lapvincki.
One brother died by
Staraya Russa, and the other by Moscow.
>> So tell me, what did your parents do for a living?
>> Mostly the Jewish in Latvia,
before they live in small towns,
who was tailors who have different profession.
They was very religious or they never make abortion.
We were six children.
My father died when I was six.
If he would not died, maybe it would be 10.
For each child, what was born,
it's from God, and each time they tell children,
if you wanted your life to have better life,
you need to study very well.
If you would study well,
you can't be doctors,
you can't be engineers.
Did what mostly they did.
We go Friday to the temple together with the parents,
we change the clothes,
and we have special clothes to go to synagogue.
My mother did like to go to Riga. She have
rich relatives there because her grandfather was a rabbi.
When his wife died,
she was Bat Sheva,
I got the name from her.
Did what I promise,
what I always do the best to remember what did for the
Jewish because my grandfather
thought I go to Hebrew school, speak Hebrew.
Before the Russia came,
it was [inaudible] the school,
because I need to speak only Hebrew.
Well my grandfather was surprised.
For a short time, I start
speak Hebrew like I born with Hebrew.
Before I speak Latvia,
German, a lot other.
Now, when he promised me you granddaughter for the rabbi,
you need to speak Hebrew.
I listening, and I did my best.
>> So your family was orthodox?
>> No really Orthodox.
They was real Jewish would believe in God.
For example, Friday, my mother prepared for
Shabbat all ready meals,
because when she came from synagogue,
she have a lady what warm up and wash the dishes.
It was the one Friday evening through Saturday,
for all Riga to have a little vacation.
We in Latvia didn't have like United States.
We didn't have dishwashers.
We did all by self.
We put the food
for three days, we didn't have that.
We cook everyday, fresh meals on kosher meals.
There were special kosher stores
where we go buy kosher meals.
We milk with meat,
didn't eat, because that not what we eat.
With milk, only with milk.
When we eat with meat, only with meat.
My mother have dishes
specially for this and specially for this.
>> Did you have any friends who were not Jewish?
>> Yes, we have a lot Latvian friends.
For example, my father, to make a living, he have a horse,
and else they didn't have buses in
the small towns before we came to Riga was Preili.
On [inaudible], I leave my grandfather or
my mother's old sisters and brothers live around, not far.
With the horse we can't go to
visit them but it was holiday,
it was Shabbat, we was
every time and other family together.
We didn't have theaters there or movies.
We read a lot of books.
When we came from school right away,
the mother give us to eat and we need to make homework.
And then we have a little garden,
we go help a little in the garden.
Or when my father took in the horse,
give him food or take care.
We listened for the parents still.
When I came United States and when I
see what's going on, it was surprise.
For us the parents was what they tell, we did it.
We was raised what we did to be good children,
and eat good, take care of the clothes.
When we go to school, they have uniforms.
Men's go with blue, white collars.
I have pictures how my children was going.
The shoes need to be clean.
The hair need to be cut.
If you have long hair,
you need to make with a band.
You couldn't come with the eyes.
When I go here the school,
I was surprised they came without sleeves in school.
In the University, I was surprised,
they didn't have uniforms. And with the long hair,
[LAUGHTER] I didn't tell them why
you came like this dress because in Europe,
you should be dressed perfect.
>> So tell me how your father died.
>> We didn't have too many doctors there.
And sometimes when you need to go to doctor,
you need to wait till he have
time for you. He was coughing.
My mother make a chicken soup.
Or give him tea with honey,
or milk and was thinking it would go away.
When you have six children,
you don't have much time to spend.
He need to work, also.
Finally, he got so sick.
We have relatives in the capital,
doctors in hospital. They was working.
My mother tell you must go to
your relatives to help and he came in hospital,
it was already tuberculosis in the last stages.
They didn't want to upset him,
they tell, you don't have long to live.
Then he tell him he want to come dying, back to us.
When I was six years old when
the doctor came late to tell you need to [inaudible].
She was a German lady.
Half house was where she lived,
the other half was the drugstore.
Why I was going?
My father, my mother all night didn't sleep.
I take my little brothers.
I was six, and they were four and two.
I take them to the park, sit next to the drugstore.
And she have a granddaughter,
Gretchen was her name.
And Gretchen asked me always the same question,
"Where are you parents when you come
with the little ones?"
I tell, "My father is very sick and
my mother take care of my father."
And if I take them
away, maybe they will fall asleep, a little rest.
And she tell her grandmother this. Then, when I came
late by the door crying for the medication,
I always got the medication.
I was six years old,
and I know for to do it,
how to get the medication for my father.
I never come without medication.
>> So how did it affect your family when he died?
What happened to your family?
>> No, I tell you,
it doesn't affect much because before my father died,
a rich relative was live already in
the capital in Riga promised him before he died,
that they will take care of us.
My mother was not too happy because the rich relatives,
they was finish in German gymnasium,
German school, mostly speak German.
My mother didn't speak German.
I was speaking a little, but in kindergarten.
When in school, you need to know
language what kind of nationality is there.
I speak Latvian, when I speak little German.
Later, I speak very well,
but they kill all my relatives,
I stopped to use the language.
Latvian, I still speak right now perfect.
When Russia came, I started to learn Russian and speak
Russia because you need to
speak all the language to communicate,
to speak with the people that live there.
>> Where did you go to school?
>> When we came to Riga,
my mother wanted to find
an apartment what was close to the school.
My uncle take my older brother
to teach him to make shoes,
and the other, gloves.
Need to be not far to walk with.
We didn't have cars we needed to walk.
Also for my younger brother to go to the kindergarten.
What was my job?
To take my youngest brother to the kindergarten,
to go to school.
When I go back from the school,
my mother gave me a list to buy for food.
And when I came, she tells,
I don't want my children go in the evening school hungry.
Take them before they go to school because
my uncle promised my father but they keep education.
They finish the high school very well.
They will learn for a job to do, would also go
in the evening school to have higher education.
They want also to be doctors, lawyers, so architects.
Did what maybe the Russian or the German
hate us too much because the Jewish want to be smart.
If there was doctors,
it was the best.
If there was tailors, they was the best.
For example, when I finish
designing with honor, I finish it.
When I came already '45 but I go to Holocaust.
No, I try my best,
my mother was sick.
My children, I was going in the evening,
in the day I was working at
store with coupons after the war.
Everything you need to go stay in
the line that I start to eat at store.
When I came, I was 17 after
the war and I was looking like a child.
They tell, "What you want, child?"
I tell, "I came for a job."
"What you mean, for a job? You're a child."
I tell, "I'm 17 already.
Maybe I don't look because I go too hungry,
I was in Russia, hungry and sick with typhoid,
with everything," I tell.
"I have a sick mother or two younger brother,
I need to have money to buy food for them."
"Don't cry."
I tell, "I was at school, mathematic,
the best. You will see I'd be a good worker."
And I was the best saleslady.
You need to cut the coupons to write down
300 grams sugar, 200 grams salt, butter.
These two days, I was writing.
The third day, I remember.
When I go call for the big lines came to
me because I was working faster for the others.
>> Well, let's go back. So after your father died,
your brothers had to support the family?
>> Yes.
>> What jobs did they do to support the family?
>> One brother was starting shoemaker,
and the other, gloves.
The older, he was still not 20
before later he started to make shoes.
On the younger, gloves.
Leather gloves and winter gloves with
lining, because there we didn't go with us.
Winter, we go dressed in fur coats or fur collars.
Only who didn't have money for fur coats,
we was not driving the cars,
we walk a lot that we need to be dressed.
>> Did your family live in an apartment or a house?
>> My mother didn't like to live where it's
all the way high and she was looking for a small house.
But really a little too small for us was one bedroom,
one living room, and a kitchen.
My uncle was not
satisfied because he promised my father,
my father's dream was to have a big house with
a big garden with fruits, apples, with everything.
And it was his dream.
My uncle tell, "My new children already,
I will start to pay them because they
maybe be all doctors.
You need to look for a bigger house with a garden."
My mother tell, "Thank you for your help.
I got already used in the little house."
Me was with hand, hot water,
we need to make to wash the dishes,
I want my brother go to school very clean.
I was every day almost in the evening, the white blouses,
where they need to go with blue outfits or
white blouses or we need to have electric iron.
I was a little girl, I felt,
don't be upset, they look good.
On iron shoes.
When I cleaned up the house,
my brother came and tell,
oh, smells so good.
Say, I clean so good.
When I was a little girl,
I was working very hard.
Did what I came to United States,
I was working hard because I was used to work hard.
We was raised different.
>> Well, tell me, how much did you
know about the Nazis in Germany?
[LAUGHTER]
>> In '39 came the Asher,
they take away from my uncle,
he have the shoe
two stores or the factors
on the bank right away close or take away the money.
Take away the big houses or
put every three families in one house.
When it was something bad,
the Latvian tell the Jewish,
bloody Russians, they didn't see what
they do to the Jewish.
To blame the Jewish always they tried.
We were surprised, all the German go
to Germany when the Russian came.
Very little didn't go.
On the Latvia was very upset where they don't have to
go but they need to stay with the Jewish till in Russia.
When I go for the school,
they tell me [FOREIGN].
I tell, why you talk to me like this?
You bad people you brought here in the Russian.
I tell, I didn't bring them.
They came [LAUGHTER].
The other children, don't talk too much,
they can beat you also, go away.
I tell need to explain what it's not my fault,
maybe they don't know.
She tell, they know better for you.
They only blame always the Jewish for everything.
>> So the Russians came in.
When did the Germans come in to occupy Latvia?
>> The Russian came the first time in '29.
And '41, came the German.
>> And what did that mean for your family?
What did you have to do? [LAUGHTER]
>> What did it mean? When the German came
the [FOREIGN] planes to [FOREIGN] right away.
The Russians, they take
a baby for the houses with these,
they did the go meet planes like the German.
The German know in the area where the Jewish live,
where the re-Jewish live and this live,
where they go in synagogue.
All my relatives run to there,
they go in a synagogue,
they believe in God also,
they make a fire,
maybe killed them and everything.
When they came back, we didn't find it done but
when we ran to
the Russian in the last moment we find out what go trays.
We was hiding but we were ambushed.
They closed, there was the hang up.
We was thinking that they will not find it.
The food, it's finished, the bank,
it's closed, the stores is closed.
My mother tell, the mice will eat us children,
let's go at least take a shower or make a tea,
if the German came,
we'll be clean to dying.
When we came with a relative,
what she be the sister,
depend sleep in a small town of walking in Riga crying.
My mother told, how you come or you done dead.
She tell, I go with very small streets
on the Capitol Streets, full killing.
My mother told her, what you come here?
She tell, my sister want to go
to Russia and I want to go to my parents.
My mother know already for the Germany over there also,
maybe her parents are dead already.
She did upset. She tell,
how your sister want to go?
She have money? She have somebody there?
Don't ask me questions.
I don't know nothing. Well, start to cry.
She want to go to her parents.
In meantime, her sister know,
but she don't tell anybody else.
Only we was the one.
We was not very close.
>> Is this your mother's sister?
>> No, this was my mother's relative's daughter.
She had older sister but also was working.
Find out what go trains to Russia.
Oh, want to go? No,
she didn't want, she want to go to her parents.
Now, finally, her sister, no,
she don't have other place,
she came to us.
And she told, my crazy sister right away.
After 12 minutes, the last train go
away or we was killed by the German.
My mother tell, wait,
we want to take a shower,
maybe we go also.
She tell, no, you don't have time,
or you can't take a suitcase.
If you go with a suitcase,
you'll be killed right away.
The German, it's all over.
Told my mother to how we will go to train?
She tell, we need to go with
very small streets where
there the job is still not there.
My mother was so tired.
We was out food hiding
there was swollen her feet was sitting there.
She told, maybe, you go.
I will go home, take a shower,
they kill me, they kill me.
I don't know mother we go all together.
Finally, when we came to the train,
was so packed with people or
older people that make up the mind to stay here.
They brought the pillows with warm clothes.
People go like, people, we go with nothing.
Maybe we go back.
I told, oh, mum, we don't go back.
All in that to move,
they start to bomb the train.
On other good luck,
but we were sitting in the back.
We didn't have close to the window then to sit.
The windows was broken.
All the people was dead cover up us. We couldn't move.
I was covered with dead people.
My mother was crying,
children, you still alive?
She was thinking maybe were also dead. Yes, mom.
No, we cannot move, we covered up.
Came to Russia and tell, stand up,
we need to burry the people or
if we can fix the train, then you will come back.
You go in the wilderness right away.
Thank God, but it was wilderness not too far.
We was all in blood.
My mother tell, can we go we the ladies to wash up?
He tell, I don't have time.
They start to be the Russian. We don't have time.
You need to go right away.
My mother again started to cry,
children, maybe we shouldn't go at all,
we will die anyway.
She was going go say,
all over the German.
We was there hungry.
Well, they tell other, please,
you need to cover up yourself
because there's still the planes all over.
We heard only killing, killing, killing, killing.
And they tell, "Only the night you can walk."
My mother tell, "We don't know Russia, where we can walk."
No, we were sitting under the trees or
looking, maybe we find blueberry
or something was still not ready.
We put in the mouth dirty, we put something.
My mother tell if it would be a rain,
we would have a little to wash up maybe.
That was not rain at all.
Finally, we hear the Russian language, the soldiers.
Also when the planes was running, they cover also.
Once they start to talk my mother go to one and told,
do a favor, take my children.
I will die here.
He tell, what are you talking?
I need to fight the rest soldiers.
They're somewhere hiding.
Did you hear what all the time the planes and killing?
My mother told, it what we got here.
The train also killed people full there.
He told, I cannot help you.
Finally, he changed the mind
because right now they need people would go
to help the mens to take the army with workers in Russia.
He tell, a little I can help you.
I will make lines where you need to go right or left.
No, only the right you can't go.
My mother tell, how we will see?
He have a little lighter.
He give mother and tell, no,
don't like this,
only here to see.
When you walk only late in the night.
Little by little a rest, you will come there.
Maybe will be other trains already.
I cannot promise you.
If it will be fixed,
the trains, maybe they will wait for you.
I cannot tell you how long we
was walking hungry like this.
We mostly walk a little and again,
we fold under the tree.
Finally when we go already like
three days or so we look trains waiting there.
>> Where were you at this time?
>> I was my brothers,
with my mother, altogether.
>> But you weren't in Riga anymore?
>> No.
>> You were in?
>> We was from Riga running to
Russia because Riga was the Germans.
>> So you were making your way into the East?
>> We was waiting the way to go to Russia.
Where they will bring us,
we don't know about Russia, nothing.
Afterwards they bring us,
I will tell what we go through there where we come.
When it was the trains
was locked in the people what was the first train.
Maybe they got it a nicer place.
We came, they take us Yaroslavl Oblast,
you will never find on the map.
There was maybe people what they
bring before and killed them.
Broken windows with a broken roof with straw.
When we go in,
was smelling terrible.
Not furniture.
A big oven in Russia is pechka.
My mother tell, you speak Russia.
I will see what men were brought,
where we will eat or where we will sleep.
I ask he tell, if you
have not to eat, you will eat here.
You can go the pechka, in the oven.
My mother tell him, you see,
we don't have nothing,
not pillows, nothing.
I tell mom, you didn't hear what he tell.
What they cannot help us if you will have to eat.
This means they will not help us.
I cannot tell you we needed the night,
we go in the oven.
Black start to eat us.
I don't know how this is.
In Yiddish it's vants,
in German also vants.
How it's in English, I don't know.
These big black.
They start to eat us,
but we go off, follow the tree.
>> Is it a bug?
>> This is a big bugs.
This came from dogs that never was cleaned.
This was in the house.
I don't know how long was there nobody live.
Maybe the people before
when the war [inaudible] when they came
in '29 to when they was killed.
Who knows? Smelling terrible.
>> Was it a barn?
What sort of place were you?
>> It was the name Yaroslavl Oblast, a small place.
Not streets, not buildings.
Maybe there was some houses.
They brought us in a place was nothing was.
>> What kind of people were there?
>> Russian. When we start to complain, they tell,
all the man is in the war and here are
dying children with hungry [inaudible].
So you ask for food or you ask,
we don't have anything to give you.
My mother asked them why they bring us here?
I told mom, what do you want to ask them?
They bring because they was thinking we
can work sometimes do something.
Right now, it's cold,
and we don't have where to work.
They tell, when it will be warm, we will work.
Maybe potatoes spud or pickup with them.
Right now it was already cold when we came.
Almost winter. Snow still wasn't.
It was very windy or very
cold and we didn't have any clothes.
>> But your mother didn't want to
stay there through the winter.
>> My mother didn't want but we didn't have where to
go after only there start to be snow.
She started to cry to him.
Can you let us go where it's a little warm?
He tell, you have money to buy tickets?
My mother tell, we don't have money, nothing.
Then finally, he was sick and
tired of my mother always crying.
They need to give once a year,
the last one, they don't have more to eat for the army.
He tell, we don't have good horses.
You will stop the wagons,
or you will go where you can ask them
to go to Uzbekistan. There it's warm.
>> Why is Uzbekistan?
Because all over
was the war. All over.
>> Well, how did people know that
Uzbekistan was a good place to go?
>> It was far away.
There still was not the German.
There was warm at least very hot.
>> Were there people who had already gone there?
>> There was maybe a lot of
immigration and Uzbekistan was big.
If it was come in beginning,
maybe would be Tashkent,
for example, in the capital.
In the capital, they have small houses,
and there is more educated Uzbeks.
When we came, was woman go with these closed faces.
They never take off.
There is kibitka there in that houses.
I will tell you how we came.
Before I go to talk to a man,
that we want to go to Uzbekistan.
He told, you have money?
You have somebody wait for you?
I tell no, we are immigration from Latvia.
He didn't know about Latvia,
nothing. So why you come here?
Go to Latvia, he tell me.
Not educated, Russia.
As a good luck was one man
was from Ukraine working there.
When he hear me crying,
my mother was, it's cold,
the snow already come.
We were dying. He came he tell,
I know the Latvian lige.
I was visiting. In Latvia,
it was a good life because
the Russian with the German come.
Now a little I can help you.
My mother tell, how you can help you?
He tell, tomorrow will be a train where the Russian
took the Jewish in camps before because they came in '39.
Right now is the front very close.
Does they put them in trucks like the
German or they need to go to Uzbekistan?
They will be there, sick people.
This is not a regular train.
This is a train like the German put the people in
trains to kill and this what
the Russians have trains like this.
I can put you early morning but not when they see.
They can put me in jail for that.
My mother tell him, tomorrow will be dying on the snow.
He tell, no, I will not do this to you.
I'm also Jewish, he tell.
I live with a mother,
with a wife and two children.
I have one room with a small kitchen.
You will sleep two nights in the kitchen on the floor.
I can something do hot water.
You will wash up a little.
You will feel better.
My mother tell, God bless you.
She have a ring on her finger.
She wanted to give him.
He told, this you will need for a piece of bread, maybe.
I don't need from you nothing.
I know a lot of
my relatives didn't go and they may be dead in Ukraine.
Ukraine is Russia.
Right now in the front all over.
It's in Moscow in Leningrad,
in all over in Russia.
When they take you,
maybe they will take two of your son.
Yeah they took my brother,
20 years right away in the army.
And my youngest still,
I will die anyway. I will go with you.
He tell, no, you stay with mother with the little ones.
He was sitting, he never talk.
He was so upset.
He tell, better I would died but to go through all this.
My little brother was,
sister don't have to eat.
They don't have a bath.
We didn't have where to take a bath, nothing.
>> So it was the three of you with your mother?
>> He go to the army when he was 17.
>> They went into the Russian army.
>> Yeah. He didn't tell my mother.
He tell he go look for food.
>> And he just didn't come back?
>> He didn't come back.
Afterwards he was killed,
we find out what he was killed in Staraya Russa.
>> So you were with this Jewish man who helped you?
>> He put us early morning in this train.
My brother, the 17 years was in the train and so were we.
He tell he will go look for food
or water and go to the army.
Then I was with my mother,
with the little brothers.
I was then 13,
one brother was 11 and one nine and my sick mother.
>> So then your mother went to for food?
>> I will tell you how it was.
Two nights, she was crying
when my brother didn't come back.
She didn't know what he go to the army.
She was thinking maybe somebody killed him.
Then she tell,
I need to go to look for water.
I just want you at least have a little water.
On the train after stops to come to
Uzbekistan I meet my little brother and out my mother.
Came to Uzbekistan,
take us somewhere, we cried.
No, we cannot go.
We will wait go regular trains.
Maybe we forgot my mother.
We were sleeping there at cement floor on the street.
We found maybe sleep.
Some train, we would say,
mom, mom, nobody answer.
We was three nights there till
police tell them to take us to the kolkhoz.
>> To the where?
>> To take away, not to be there.
>> The kolkhoz?
>> This is kolkhoz where they put us.
That house is Kibitsky.
Maybe the army,
the soldier in Tazbekistan.
Uzbekistan is not far from
Tajikistan where they don't have regular houses.
They have out windows,
they make that bread, lipioshki,
outside, though they never give us any food.
When I showed them we're hungry, he told,
"Go to Hitler, he will feed you."
He was laughing.
One only Uzbek speak a little Russia.
He told, "Don't cry,
we'll find your mother."
I tell, how you find?
I don't think you have the newspaper. How you find?
We will find your mother.
I see him one time,
only this man would speak a little Russia.
He didn't come. When I was saying,
I'm sorry, he don't come.
He promised to find my mother and he didn't came back.
Finally, when we're drinking from the lake,
the dirty water was
smelling or washing me the same water.
We got typhus sick,
I'm the first one,
or they didn't want to take us to
hospital and they died, the Jewish.
No, that was a teacher at school where the Uzbeks go.
He tell all the Uzbeks can't go for them sick.
You need to take them to the hospital.
I was the last one but I did already nothing.
My fever was so high that they take me,
the first one, in hospital.
When I came, I was there almost dead.
The good luck with me.
A Jewish doctor was sitting and he see that,
but they came to visit me, who's dying from fever.
Mom, bring me chocolate.
Mom, bring me cookies,
and I fell asleep again.
He put me cold compress,
something put in my mouth.
After three weeks, I opened the eyes.
He told, sweet child,
he opened the eyes.
You talked a little German and a
little Jewish so I understand you're Jewish,
but I don't see any parents come to you visit.
When I again fell asleep,
my mother was here, she brought me
chocolate and I fell asleep again.
After I find out when I was better,
he got typhus and he was the doctor.
An Uzbek doctor tell,
you're very weak right now,
you cannot work because for that was high fever.
I have with my feet, something.
Tell me from what place they brought you.
I didn't remember nothing.
Right now, I know it was
[inaudible] Then I didn't remember nothing.
I tell, I was a bit high fever,
I don't know where I need to go back.
He told, if you stay here longer,
you will go again,
and then you will not survive.
>> Where were your brothers?
>> In the army.
>> Your younger brothers?
>> The younger brother, they take him after.
I didn't know they take him in hospital.
>> So you were all in the hospital?
>> They was in the other hospital
because this hospital was the closer.
When I was the most sick,
they brought me the first.
But then when I came back,
I find out that they came
a day before my brothers for the hospital.
>> So you recovered?
>> I was long time very weak.
I couldn't walk.
After was a miracle where before I got sick.
I remember for my older brother,
the number when he was in the army,
I was writing letters.
The first time I tell him not the true.
I write a letter because mother working.
He eyed me down, don't lie to me.
My mother would never go sleep not
to write me a letter. No, I was young.
I remember the number,
and then I think I did a mistake.
I need to tell him the truth.
Then I tell him what mother go to look for
food or the training gun or we came in Uzbekistan.
We cannot speak the language.
They don't help us with a kibitka.
When I was sick,
I didn't write him long time.
Nobody write him letters.
Then he asked all the soldiers,
maybe they find the husband for my sister.
He should be, or maybe my sister is alive or maybe she
lives better because he tell the Russia to
take him in the army or come to my sister talk,
or he put me to his parents or my sister left,
or maybe was thinking, she's killed,
she didn't come back.
Now after, he find out that she left with his parents.
That day was the [FOREIGN].
You can believe the [FOREIGN].
If to go there,
you need to go change four trains.
>> Well, I want to go back.
This brother that you're writing,
he's not the brother in the Russian army?
>> Yeah. He was in the army, he still was alive.
The first, he was killed.
>> But why did you know where he was?
>> [FOREIGN] is in Russia, but
he got me the first letter,
was how to write him back.
>> How did he know where you were?
>> It was before we came with my mother.
She the first time write him a letter in the army.
We was already where they took him.
He took him right away in the army,
the older brother, the youngest go later.
The older, they took for Yaroslavl Oblast already.
>> So the second brother that left,
that was off the train.
You didn't have communication with him?
>> No. For the youngest, we didn't have.
The oldest got right away where they brought us
to Yaroslavl Oblast. They have nothing,
so they took him right away in the army.
>> So tell me about communicating
with your sister's husband.
>> It was like this.
My brother, the older,
was in the army.
He find out somewhere that he was in
the same place where here because
some soldiers was by Moscow,
some Leningrad, all over in Russia.
So they didn't put all soldiers into one place.
Now, somebody tell him he heard
this last name for husband for my sister.
Powell, was his name.
He tell everybody,
if you hear from him,
tell him to write to me or he can come where I am.
My brother didn't find him, no.
A friend after find him,
but promised my brother,
if I'm dying,
you help my parents if you come back to Riga.
If you will die,
when I come, I'd be.
So he was very close in army.
They was also hungry and they ask you to take
their food for the soldiers or buy them clothes.
The place is freezing there.
Some was dying from typhus or all kind of other sickness.
The little was a miracle who survived.
My brothers didn't survive.
One by Moscow died in 2017 by Russia.
>> So did you find your sister?
Did you meet up with your sister?
>> I will tell you. When I was in hospital,
somebody find her husband or give her address.
When I came back for the hospital,
there was a letter from the Polish people,
was also with us in the train.
They didn't read Russian.
I little understand what [FOREIGN] Her name is Leah.
When I came back, they tell,
you have a sister Leah, she's alive.
I told, no, she died right away, the German killed her.
No, she's alive.
We understand [FOREIGN]. I understand.
I start to read,
my husband meet somebody
for your brother or give the address.
And he tell promise was right away,
he will give the address
for you or you need to find them,
but they long time didn't hear.
Maybe they're dead, maybe they're alive,
or didn't know I write you a letter.
If you're still alive,
right away, answer me.
I cannot come to you right away, it's far away.
I need money for the tickets.
I need, but I can't go there,
maybe I find help.
I live with the parents for my husband.
He's a good tailor and did what we have something to eat.
We're not so hungry.
If you come to me,
I cannot promise you have a lot,
at least potatoes with a piece of bread, you will have.
When I read this, I hear
potatoes with a piece of bread and has tea.
I will say, God, she's in a nice place.
Then right away, I answer her.
I tell, you come to pick us up better,
we have here nothing.
Not clean water, we were sick.
I come only a couple of days for the hospital.
My little brother got also survive for the hospital.
Now here, I don't know how long we will be okay because
we drink the dirty water or we don't have food at all.
Finally, she got the money.
When I was a little better, I start to work,
was already, not apple.
I don't know what I go by the trees to
find something to give my brother to eat.
I was putting in a little,
was eating what we got, what we got.
I was afraid, again,
we maybe we got sick but we need something to eat.
When I start something to
pick up or I see my sister go with a bag.
When she saw me,
oh, my God, I was out hair.
They take out the hair,
I don’t know when you have typhus. .
The clothes was terrible.
My clothes was old terrible.
Also, we didn't have clear water to wash,
not soap, nothing. Hi, Leah.
Her name was Leah.
Leah, I was here.
She saw me how I look,
she start to cry.
I tell, don't cry.
I'm right now already back.
If you come to pick us up,
maybe we'll be alive or maybe we find the mother also.
She was crying.
Then I shall come. The brothers
need to see you also come.
When we came, she brought
the dry bread, [FOREIGN] in Russia.
She tell, how you will eat?
We have to put hot water.
I tell, this water is smelling for the lake.
No, we couldn't eat the hot bread, nothing.
She go to the police and ask so fast take us back,
to make us for the train we need,
she didn't know how to go back also.
Finally, she gave the address to those who help us.
And she put money.
They told, for two, you need tickets.
The little one can go out without ticket.
She was happy that she don't need to
spend the last penny for tickets.
Now, we need to change three trains. So far was it.
When we came in the first train
was already keep your talk, hot water.
She tell, then you can put the bread on it already.
When I go to pick up [inaudible], the hot water,
I was out of hair,
how husband a lady look on me.
My sister was looking also very young.
She can pin at her hair.
She was looking very young.
She look on the children.
Now my mother was there where the woman.
When she go looking, a dog bite
her hand and she was in the same hospital.
The lady asked me,
"Where are your parents?"
I tell, my parents,
we lost my mother.
When we go here, we lost my mother.
And right now, we was in hospital.
See, we don't have hair.
We find a sister,
we go to my sister.
She tell, "Was your mother's name Dvoira Lapvincki?"
I told, "Yeah, how you know?"
She told, "I go to Tashkent, I need operation."
And she tell she will pray for me,
maybe the children is the place where my parents.
I forgot how she tell that in Russia.
I forgot the name in Russia.
I will pray for you to have good operation,
you find my children.
Then she give the address for
the hospital or my mother if she out for the hospital.
I asked my sister,
this is not so far.
Maybe they go back to the mother.
She told, no, my husband is in
Germany like a spy because he speak German.
They tell, if he will make okay,
they will give him two weeks vacation.
My sister, I think she
was hoping when he go to Germany he came alive.
I tell, maybe we go to the mother and then we go back.
She said, no, maybe he waited for me already.
She was in a hurry to go.
When we came, her husband was killed.
When we got, my brother was killed because
she was also writing for [FOREIGN].
We got already where he was killed,
who by Moscow, who by old Russia,
the younger by old Russia.
>> Why was her husband killed?
>> They send him to Germany.
Right away when he came to Germany, he was killed.
He was like a spy.
They want to send him as spy
because he was speaking German.
>> Spy?
>> Yeah, to give the information to the Russia.
>> He went to Germany thinking that he could?
>> Do something. They promised him,
if you'll do something,
they will give him two weeks vacation.
My sister was thinking he will come back.
I understand this, but he will not come back.
I know especially if they send
him in Germany, right away kill.
>> So this woman who had met your mother,
how did she meet your mother? Where did they meet?
>> In hospital. My mother
go looking over when the dog bite her,
she was in the same hospital where this woman.
Now on this hospital, they couldn't operate.
Only Tashkent was the big,
where the better doctors.
Then she go into Tashkent.
Before, we would go to Tashkent,
there was houses there where you could get a job,
we could have what we eat.
No, my sister was in a hurry to go to
[FOREIGN] She was hoping
her husband will come on vacation.
When we come, her parents was crying,
they got already and he was dead.
When my mother came,
she was with Alzheimer's but she lost all the children.
It was beginning of Alzheimer's,
she was crying a lot,
but we bring the mother also with her.
>> So your mother had been in Tashkent?
>> No, not in Tashkent.
She was where the lady lived before.
If we would go right away to
my mother, there was better.
There was a lot people
immigration there my mother was working.
We was very sorry,
but my sister didn't listen so we didn't go.
There word, better for the [FOREIGN] was again called.
We write my mother a letter to come.
Then she asked, I have a little money,
what I was working here,
but I can't bring.
I tell, maybe you come by with something to bring.
My mother put all in
a big bag and she had broken her hand.
I asked them to help her.
He's stolen everything, what she had.
She looked for him, she didn't find him.
He told, yes, I can't help you, he stolen everything.
That little money she have,
she have her clothes, everything is stolen.
In this time for the war, that was terrible.
>> Do you remember when this was?
Do you have a sense of what year?
>> I can tell you what year this can be.
The war start in '41.
Then we was in the Yaroslavsky Oblast,
it was a year in Yaroslavsky Oblast.
Then when we come to Uzbekistan,
we was there two years that I got sick altogether.
Until we came to my sister,
was about five years was going on the war.
>> So how long were you separated from your mother?
>> Three years.
And so you and your two little brothers were on your own?
>> I was then 13, my brother 11.
The youngest was nine.
>> And you were in Uzbekistan most of that time?
>> This was, I tell you,
Yaroslavsky was bad, there was not better also.
>> What did you do in Uzbekistan?
Did you work somewhere?
>> There was cotton.
We need to go pick up cotton.
And I didn't have shoes,
my feet was always infected for the hot,
but I go out shoes
because my foot bigger
or swollen the feet, must we work.
When we don't have food to eat, go swollen also.
I tell you the truth, I was crying the night.
At least I would have water to put my feet to
wash. We didn't have any soaps.
With this dirty water from the lake,
I go behind,
I was a little myself.
Not toilets, you cannot believe.
I tell you the truth,
if I would not be in this place,
somebody would tell me,
I could not believe that you can
go through this will survive.
By right now, I lost my vision,
I lost my teeth,
I lost 50 pounds.
When I came back in '45,
my stomach was hungry for everything.
When I start to eat, I have so much pain in my stomach.
When I go in hospital,
they start to give me medication.
I got a rash,
or my kidney doesn't work,
nothing, hungry so many years.
Here in America, the people cannot believe this.
Thank God, they have food all the time.
>> Yes. So in Uzbekistan,
were there other Jews there that had come there?
>> This was also the people that was in the train.
But these men put us in the train with
the sick people before was in Russia,
or the road was closed.
They put them in the train then they
already killed. They could kill them.
No. They did right now to help the Jewish to fight
also the little Jewish
with the better shape all in the army.
>> And you were picking cotton.
So where did you live?
Did you have a house?
>> I told you that it was kibitka, stones the floor.
We sleep on dirty stones.
>> Kibitka?
>> Kibitka, not windows, nothing.
>> Who did it belong to? Who owned it?
>> It was the Uzbeks have that or the
better places, they live by itself.
When we came, somebody lived there already.
>> Was there a family or a person that was helping you?
[OVERLAPPING]
>> I go to [inaudible] and I showed them I'm hungry.
And he was saying,
go to Hitler, he will feed you.
>> And you were there for two years?
>> It was more over two years.
I was in hospital.
It was
close to three years.
>> So you were reunited with your mother, finally?
>> We was united with my mother.
And when my mother came with us,
they got the letters with
my sister's husband dead or they were crying.
They tell, for so many people,
they didn't have place for us.
You need to look for other place.
This was Chuvashskaya Respublika, Tatarskaya Respublika.
How we got in Tatarskaya Respublika?
>> Can you say it more slowly?
>> Tatarskaya Respublika.
>> And where was that?
>> I will tell you how we come there.
This is also miracle.
>> Sure.
>> When we were still by my sister in Chuvashskaya,
my cousin from Preili, where we was born,
he was in the army.
His wife was in Tatarskaya Respublika
where she bore a child.
On here when he was in the army,
I don't know how he got the address
when we was in Chuvashskaya Republika.
He got a letter for her,
but she bore a child.
When she got a letter for her husband was in the army,
but maybe she bring us so we will help
her to raise the child because she need to work.
There was a good kolkhoz,
if you're working, you have bread with potatoes.
We asked for her right away,
we was lucky to come.
We don't know how to come,
we don't have money for tickets.
She tell, we'll take her a little time.
She will get money,
she will mail us tickets or explain how we come.
I tell you the true, it's life miracles.
When we came there, we was all working at a kolkhoz,
it was a good kolkhoz.
We go pick up potatoes,
or the bread need,
how is it in English, the word?
>> Is it a seed?
>> I was seed where you go to make for mill.
How is it English debut?
I don't know, I was before.
Though the take guard people,
all family walking in the coal horse.
My youngest brother or we got sometimes honey a little,
they give us for good work.
Thanks to her when she brought us there, we survived.
Because in Chuvashskaya Respublika also,
we didn't have much to eat.
Over start to be cold,
they could go work.
On there, finally, they give us
subsequent boot subsie to go to work or we was working.
We was working very good.
We pick up potatoes so we go over there,
we need to take or digress to better clean
up but is something growing in the gardens.
>> Weeding?
>> No. We was working
clean up the gardens to be vegetables.
There they have already vegetables also in this kolkhoz.
There was a good kolkhoz.
Some other words they lucky
they know how to do better life.
There was Tatarstan.
This was Tatarskaya Respublika.
It was at least they have to eat.
>> So you were part of a group of farmers, a collective?
>> He was with a lady also sleeping on floor.
She had been taught to make half the oven,
also they have hot water to wash themselves.
Already we have people,
was a toilet that far where she live.
>> Did your mother work?
>> Yeah, my mother was working also.
>> So do you remember the end of the war?
>> The end of the war was the '45.
>> How did you get the news of it?
>> They have already radios
also in this place for the war.
On the first one,
they let me go because they need
young woman first came in Riga or what they want me,
but I speak so many languages.
I speak Russia and I speak Latin.
They want me to come to go to the families of
big apartments to tell
they put two families in one apartment.
No, I was afraid to go, they can kill me.
Then I go the street,
I see in a store they need a sales lady.
I go in and I tell I came back,
we didn't find nothing for other belongings.
There is a Latvian man,
he told he boarded the house.
We sleep temporarily but people let us sleep.
Or they tell, you are a child,
we cannot give you a job. I start to cry.
I tell I'm 17 and I was in school,
very good in mathematic or I was a good sales lady also.
Then when I was crying,
the other day who brought me a pillow,
I tell when I worked the first day, what I need,
go in flea market and buy a bed for my sick mother.
My mother is very sick.
And then I came the second day,
wow, bought me a pillow.
One man tell me,
if you go to the flay market,
you tell you got big apartment,
not all of weight or nothing.
Who will sleep?
I told my brothers we was working in cohort,
we slept a lot of heavy stuff.
We will break. He told I will go help you.
On the first time when he bought a bed for me,
he would tell, you got the cellar,
keep it, you need for yourself.
So he started to help us when I came back to Riga.
>> So where had you gone to get help?
Where did you go? You were
on this farm and then you went somewhere. Was that Riga?
>> No, but we came to the farm,
after the war we came to Riga in '45.
Was Russia again.
>> How did you get news that the war had ended?
>> They have a radio already.
We didn't have right away tickets for
everybody that I go the first one to Riga.
>> I see.
>> Or when I find a job,
I mail it to the rest of
my brother and my mother tickets to buy.
I came the first one into Riga.
>> Did you see your home back in Riga?
>> I came, there was a letter,
he didn't let us in.
He tell he bought it, this belonged to him.
>> Who was it? Was it a Latvian.
>> A Latvian, yeah.
There was a full Latvian.
And he didn't let me in.
Now, my mother, she lost two sons in the army.
We were saying in the line,
they should give us apartment.
These people, the parents
have children who are dying in the Russian Army.
They should give apartments.
Then they give us apartment on
the fourth floor with that elevator.
I started crying.
My mother is a sick woman.
You want it, take it, you don't want, go.
Next. They don't talk to you much.
We didn't have a choice,
we take the apartment on the fourth floor.
>> So these are the Soviets who were in charge.
>> Yeah. These already,
we came back to Riga,
was it in '45 again in Russia?
No, they was not so bad,
they was the beginning
because a lot of Jewish helped them to
fight against the Dutches
so they have the names for these,
the names where they died and everything.
To these people were the children dying in the army,
like my mother lost two sons,
they must give apartments.
These one they did was in the army,
it was as hurried to give them apartments.
>> So did you live there with your mother?
>> With my mother, with my little brothers, yeah.
>> Did you go to work?
>> Sure. First job was in a store, I was working.
Everything was food with coupons.
>> What store was it?
>> This was a store for offices, for post offices.
In Russia was [FOREIGN].
This was for all offices where they go or buy
food or meat coupons with cards.
>> And how did you obtain the job?
>> Very easy. I attend the jobs.
Then you need to cut the coupons where have children was
200 grams maybe for the children and butter.
There was something, better food.
For these one, don't have children
was bread half kilogram,
is 400 gram bread.
Then I cut or I write down or I was working.
>> Was it because of rationing or
was it because the communist system?
>> That was still communist as there was not
already so bad but they came in for a five.
>> So they were?
>> They was the best apartments
or the best food was for them.
>> So how did you work as a salesperson?
>> I was working three years or in
the evening I go starting to finish head designer.
In Europe, what was good in Latvia.
In Europe. You can go in the evening study mechanical.
In Germany is [FOREIGN], in German.
This mean [FOREIGN],
you can study, you want to be a mechanical,
you want to make shoes,
you want to dressmaker,
that I was designer,
heads go in the evening starting.
>> So the school for hat maker.
>> That was different schools.
I make up my mind,
I was go to heads,
next was a dressmaker was studying.
You could learn what you want.
>> Why did you choose hat making?
>> Oh, [LAUGHTER] this is a story.
The Jewish always when they go to the synagogues,
the like always for holiday buy new hats.
When I was like, mom,
I want to go with you.
I was there five a half.
Then I came, I picked up from my mother or from my aunt,
the older tell, how old is the child?
My mother told five and a half.
She be something special.
Look, she picked up the right one.
Oh, there she's older let she
come be for the first lady.
If I would fight, maybe I would go there.
No, I was working.
Three years, I was studying. Need to study.
The second year, you can't go the second year.
The first year, you're too good already.
I'm very fast with learning.
>> So when you finished this course?
>> When I start to be hat designer,
I stopped working in the store and I was hat designer.
>> And did you design them at
home or did you have a store?
>> No. We was working.
It was already hat designer stores or
there was a fabric where they make hats also.
They want me before to go in the fabric.
I tell, no, I cannot go in the fabric.
I have a sick mother and two younger brother.
I need clothes or we will leave.
This was a store and there we make the hats.
So that they came and buy the hats, they're special.
Then I was already better.
They say that I make new borders on everything.
That was where it's clothes,
so you make dresses all kind of, not only hats.
It was a big office where you make everything.
>> And so can you tell me about meeting your husband?
>> My husband, I met him when I
already still was working in the store.
He came from the Army,
and his parents was all killed.
They was living in a small town, they was all killed.
He was one son and four sisters,
none of them was alive.
Before the war starts,
the parents, he was one boy,
sent him to relatives to Riga to go studying something.
On start of the war,
they take him with them.
He was also in Russia,
they took him in the army.
He was wounded and he have a good luck.
I have in my book, Latvian Jewish
fighting Nazi, his pictures.
When the cousin was find him when he was wounded,
put him on the shoulder and brought him in hospital,
that's how he survived.
When he would pick him up,
he was maybe dead.
Though he was a very strong man,
I have the two cousins who was with him in the same Army.
Vapne was the name, but I have his name right now.
My name was Lapvincki before.
>> What was his first name?
>> My husband?
>> Your husband.
>> My husband's name,
I will tell you right away, Khona.
>> Khona?
>> Khona. It was my son have Khona.
>> Okay. So when did you get married?
>> I got married after divorce, I was 17.
When I was 22 years old, I got married.
>> So that was about 1950?
>> Yeah.
>> And you continue to
work as a hat maker for quite some time.
>> I was all the time working with hats.
I make more money for my husband.
>> Oh, really?
>> Yeah. When he came back,
my brother was 15,
he met a man that was in the Army with my brother.
They were talking, who survived if they
find somebody for the families, they will help.
When I was working in store,
my 15 year brother came with good news.
He met a friend for my brother that was
killed and he promised he will help.
I will go, he will teach me mechanical job.
He made bicycles, he fix,
you need to lock your home lockers,
a lot of things detail,
he will teach me give me
a little money to go buy clothes,
to help us with furniture.
We didn't have nothing.
We need to privately never was living there.
Everything was taken away.
It was not taken away.
The German maybe they throw out.
These Germans would kill the Jewish.
When the Russian come back,
they ran away because
the Russians want to put them in the jail.
>> To punish them.
>> To punish them, yes.
That's why they ran away.
For the family, what still was,
they have all the stuff they couldn't take with
them or they put in
the flea market to give very cheap away.
It was all the take away for the Jewish good stuff.
There was good stuff in the flea market.
Little by little, we bought everything,
beds or table where I was working.
We came with nothing.
When we came back in '45,
we had nothing we leave nothing as I belong.
>> So you were living with your mother.
After you married and had children,
did you continue to live with your mother?
>> My mother was living all the time.
Now, after I leave high
my mother could go to my youngest brother,
he was starting a school.
Then in the academy we got
a one bedroom apartment on the first floor for her.
So still my brother was with
her until she was not very sick.
After she got the Alzheimer's.
In the beginning I did wanted Russia,
was not what you can choose a better place.
Because one place, she was beginning
out she was crying a lot.
She lost where she put away.
She didn't remember.
She was not so bad.
Then she was a little with me,
a little with my sister.
Now one time, my neighbor called me,
she lost her vision.
She operate her left eyes.
She had cancer in her eyes.
She removed her left.
I'm afraid, maybe I have already cancer.
Do they operate her eyes so she get to see,
she couldn't hear also.
My brother would go there academy,
when somebody saw there to be light a little in her room.
Now after she was so bad by herself,
with her Alzheimer she couldn't be by herself.
Then finally, one time
called me the neighbor, who tell,
"Sheva, you need mother put in
a hospital because she almost make a fire.
She wanted to put a candle, fall to the floor,
good that we was in the home or hear what the smelling.
And she was on the floor,
she wanted to pick up or she couldn't see to pick up."
Then I put her in the hospital.
>> So you were living in a different place?
>> I have already living with my husband.
>> Where were you living with him?
>> Also in Riga.
>> Okay, but in another part of town?
>> No, we was in the Riga.
My mother was in Marijasstrasse,
I was in Blumenstrasse, different streets only.
No, I go after work always to
her where she lives with my brother.
I go to bring the food, help anyway.
Only when my mother got sick,
did I by lunchtime,
go to the hospital to make her
a bath, to go a little with her outside.
I was crying what I did
by poor mother to hold in a place like this?
If I would find it somebody could pay like here,
you pay to somebody,
we would put together or we would not let her go there.
Not there, you couldn't find somebody would take her.
Only it was one place with
Alzheimer but here you can a better place,
find something, you pay.
There was one place.
So why couldn't you pay for that there?
>> To take care of a person?
>> Yes.
>> Nobody want to take care of
older people with outsiders.
You couldn't find that person.
>> Okay. And they wouldn't have had a home
or a retirement place, that sort of thing?
>> There was no homes like United States.
>> Describe the system for me.
You said you were making money by hat making;
more money than your husband.
But did you keep that money?
How much did you get to keep
because of the economic system? Remind me this.
>> I tell you the truth.
I make money.
For example, I paid for food.
I go in the market, I paid.
I was happy that I find because the stores
was poor people that don't work.
In the daytime, they bring a little in
the stores with lines.
Sometimes they'd say, "It's
finished, you don't have more."
My sick mother couldn't stay in
the lines during the daytime.
While my brother also was working,
the younger go to school.
Only I after work,
I go, it's empty; there's nothing.
It takes gut. You have flour,
make pancakes; something like this.
Why do you think I was happy to give away?
To the end, I have a good apartment.
I three times changed my apartment.
I paid or I changed.
Before I have apartment,
I changed to have my mother on the first floor.
Then, was not windows enough for son.
When he was born, he got asthma.
The doctors tell,
"You need to have a lot windows to open;
sun or fresh air."
That I go in summer and I
rented by the ocean for fresh air.
It cost a lot of money.
When I take my sick mother outside,
I didn't put her there.
I take my mother with me also.
Also when I go
sometimes there or when she was not too bad,
I tell my son, "I need to go
to look for food to bring by the ocean.
You pick up your grandmother or bring also there.
I don't her to stay by herself."
>> I see. So you had a son and daughter?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And you worked as
a hat maker for about 32 years?
>> Or I tell my children,
"You need to study good.
I want you finish something.
I don't have education because my father died.
I was a little girl on the war."
I was happy but I could study professional after the war.
Before I was a child,
I was washing the dishes with my mother,
I was washing the floor.
I did everything when I was a young girl at home.
>> So then your mother passed away in
the 1970s and how
did you make the decision to leave Latvia?
>> Before my mother was sick,
I didn't want to go away.
I go to visit her there.
But when my mother died,
then I was thinking I want a better life.
This was so bad.
When you go, the store is empty
when you have money or you don't.
If you go very early in the market,
then then the president was drunk.
He take away the farms to make
Kolkhoz but they don't have nothing in the Kolkhoz.
>> Who was the president?
>> Brezhnev.
>> Okay. So it was
not a good place to live
because you didn't get enough food?
>> I tell you the truth, you need
everything connection to have.
For example, to get a nice dress,
nice shoes, you need connection
to have in the store. It takes gut.
I make hats for them then I tell, I need shoes.
Tell me where there's good shoes.
You have money but
your money cannot get you what you want.
Everything was for the companies.
>> So did you have any connections?
>> I have connection. I make hats;
I have in store connection. Yes.
>> Did people seek you out to buy your hats?
>> To get cover to medication or hospital,
you need to make 100 hats a month.
Not only to make,
you need to have patience.
Came a young woman with nice hair,
with a nice face,
what she put on is good on hair.
Came a lady that go through a lot,
maybe holocaust also,
met everything, she came with no hair,
she put on, doesn't look good.
You cannot tell her you don't have patience.
You need to be nice to her.
I tell, "Maybe next week I will make you something new.
I will make something special
for you." "Thank you, Sheva."
I have so many customers
because I have patience with them.
I go through a lot.
It's not her fault but she don't have hair.
She lost in the wartime or through the holocaust.
She go through what I go through.
For me, curl up my hair if it was good.
I had nice hair at least.
Curl up my nice hair and I start to look better without.
When I was working in the store,
I eat hard bread but it was not good for my stomach.
But because I was working, got put something.
I got sick also afterwards.
So many years hungry,
you start to eat if it was not good.
No, I didn't have time to make good soup.
I came from work.
I needed to clean the house or I need to give my mother;
before we lived together
of my mother was in the hospital,
I ran to her to the hospital.
My brother was waiting.
I came, I make at least potatoes or something fast.
We didn't have time or didn't
have good food; what we need.
We eat what we have.
The Russian take the best away.
I had a good apartment
three times and put already furniture.
With connection you could
get new furniture, but I have the money.
I make hats and I make money.
No, you need connection to buy this all.
>> Right.
>> I have a good profession
or have connection or pay them a little more.
You got to find the money.
What is the price?
You make them because if
the Russians will find out what they sell it,
they can put them in jail.
They bring me by furniture in the evening.
>> Well, let's talk about your immigration
to the United States.
So you came in '77?
>> In '79.
>> And you came to Florida?
>> No, we didn't go for Florida.
>> Where did you go?
>> To Atlanta.
Before we came to Atlanta,
three weeks I was in Vienna.
On five months, it was in
Italy until America accepted us.
>> Okay.
>> You think right away you could come to America?
>> No.
>> No, I tell you the truth.
We have education my children.
I also was speaking five languages,
I was in Italy.
My son or my daughter was working.
My son take people.
They came in apartment there in Italy when it's cold.
They need to go explain what they need to prepare.
If for example they got sick,
they didn't know how to tell one they're sick.
My son already know a little or my daughter very well.
They make a little money in Italy;
my son and my daughter.
When I find a lady and she find out I make,
"Make me a scarf."
I go by her house and make a scarf and
make a little money in Italy.
>> So you stayed in Italy for five months?
>> Five months.
>> And then you came to Atlanta?
>> I tell you, I did a big mistake.
Immigration, they know Toronto is better.
They told, "Sheva, you'll meet
your profession. Come to Toronto.
It's cold, you will make good money."
People who have come before came to Atlanta.
They tell, they have a swimming pool,
what is good, that I think is good, I will go there.
I was a big mistake when I came to Atlanta.
>> So you should have gone to Toronto?
>> In Toronto I could open for myself
a store or make hats or make good money.
>> So people weren't wearing hats in Atlanta as much?
>> In Atlanta, everybody go in cars.
They would not hire me for hats.
They would hire me for the fur coats.
On fur coats at the time,
but in New York the fur coats
there was not too much work.
Why do you think they let me
go when I was two years to retire?
There was not so much work already.
>> That's it.
>> When I tell the new manager
the German what he bought for Neiman Marcus.
I tell, "I can go with the hats, make clothes also."
I was working from weekend tailor shop before.
But it was minimum, $3.50.
She paid me $2.50 and she gave me
the most expensive suits but I need my hands,
small stitches to make the very expensive suits.
When I was happy;
I did speak very well English
or I tell I got a job let's be $2.50.
>> So you were at Neiman Marcus?
>> In the end, I tell you how I got to Neiman Marcus.
There was a man working for Ricky.
Sometimes part-time for him,
part-time in Neiman Marcus.
It was before Christmas,
they have a lot of work in Neiman Marcus,
but was not too many workers. Then he tell me,
"Sheva, I saw you make for Vicki,
came a lady with her friend's jacket,
or you make she didn't know how to do.
Come, I buy you a coffee.
Come with me to cafeteria."
Vicki didn't know what he will tell me,
"Go to Neiman Marcus." He tell, "He's a gentleman.
Go drink a coffee, Sheva."
I bring always from home my tea.
When I have a very expensive suits
to work and I was working.
I didn't have time to go to drink coffee or something.
After me was a black man, with his ironing. God forbid.
If he stayed 10 minutes,
don't have what to do,
Vicki tell, Sheva, you sick again.
I tell Vicki, what you're talking, I'm sick again.
I feel not good working.
He can iron fast.
I can't make so fast the suit.
When you short the sleeve,
you need to take out
all the buttons and shorten the lining.
Then you put back the lining or you need
to measure to put the buttons in the right place.
If you need to shorten here something,
you need also the lining,
shorten small stitches, not to see very expensive suits.
It is very difficult to work.
Not everybody.
It was was working by machine one, two, three was fast.
Now me, she put because I finish the designing in Europe,
I make very nice stitches.
She gave me the most expensive.
And she paid me only 250 or 350, I didn't complain.
Now, when I need to go to doctor,
I need to ask the Jewish Federation maybe
give me to a doctor or I need to pay from my pocket.
I didn't have Medicare with her.
It was I was very upset.
Now when this man tell me,
"Sheva, what you doing here?
You tell your daughter speak English.
Why you don't go in Neiman Marcus?"
I said, "Where is Neiman Marcus?"
He said, "Come outside.
See where the black sign? Right here.
Let your daughter fill out the application right now,
before Christmas they very busy.
You will got a job."
I came home, I told my daughter.
She told, "Mom, I will go with you."
She fill out two applications.
When I came, I was smart enough not to go to the manager.
I go in the work room.
There was the supervisor in the work room for London.
She know about Latvi.
When I came, my daughter write me down
how to tell I came from Latvia.
I was 32 years as designer.
I worked with Fares,
with Silver Fox,
with Mink, we made fabrics with everything.
She told, can you finish the lining. Yes, I told.
Oh, you make beautiful stitches. Really you're good.
Can you sell by the fair machine because fair,
you can't sell machine,
unique overlock like this, go.
Oh, you do so much. Good job.
Sheva, come to the manager.
His name was, what was his name?
Later maybe I remember.
He asked me, "What about if you need to
go, Mrs. Vapne, for fitting?"
Then she tell, "What you talking?"
"She may need help work, you see what kind of good work."
"I will bring a radio, 1 o'clock."
Oh, Craig Garrison was his name.
Craig Garrison tell, "Mrs. Vapne what about fitting?"
I tell, "I will try my best. I will learn English."
And she tell to him. She came
on her daughter, write her down.
She tell me she came from Latvia, she was designer.
I understand very well,
and I will bring 1 o'clock lessons
for newcomer. I will help her.
After a month, I will speak English.
Maybe a bit I accent, maybe right now.
It's also my English not so good like American.
When I go for fitting,
I know the best need to be done.
And they ask, "Oh yeah, nice lady
with a nice accent from where you come."
[LAUGHTER] I tell, "From Latvia."
"Where is Latvia?"
I tell, "The Baltic Republic [inaudible] ."
They tell, "Forget it. You do a good job.
This is important."
I tell you I learned it very fast.
Well, I'm going to ask you
one more question.. And then we'll finish up.
So you currently live at the Zaven Tower?
I live in Zaven Tower.
I was not living before.
When we came we got apartment for the Jewish Federation.
Until we got a job,
they help us to pay.
Now after when we already start to work,
my son never made bridges.
He made schools, restaurants, hotels, buildings.
And the Jewish Federation tell,
maybe you will learn.
He started for $4 with bridges.
It was a big mistake.
He was sitting with books
at 3 o'clock and I tell my daughter,
you speak English, help him.
She says, momma, I'm not architect.
What can I understand in the books?
Then they have $4, they hired him.
No with small companies.
So let him go in the morning studying English,
late in the evening to work with Saturday to Sundays.
I give him lunch, he brought back.
Mom, I didn't have time.
They sent me inspection to make also.
They take advantage of him.
And he came in the evening, I tell, sweetheart,
eat and rest and start to learn.
I work already Neiman Marcus and I
don't like what you work for small companies.
He told, Mom, I have a job, doesn't matter.
He was not in a hurry to pass the pre examination.
And then he got married with a wife, with a child.
When I left to Florida, I got mad,
she wanted to make me for
a maid to take care of her child,
or she never cleaned,
then I got mad.
I moved to Florida and I lost my job in Neiman Marcus.
>> And when did you return to Atlanta?
>> When I got very sick. I couldn't.
When you're sick, all the companies
take advantage of you.
I didn't know.
Before my son brought me on the ground floor,
it was not central air condition, I couldn't breathe.
But I go during
the war time with the pneumonia and with everything,
then I started to work for a lady with
Alzheimer's every penny I hold it to change.
When after I changed in the third floor it was too hot
because there was a lot windows.
I was looking for a lot of
windows because I want to make alteration.
It was too hot already,
that I was working day and night,
my air condition a lot for electricity to pay.
Or you need companies to insure all this.
And if they see what you are old lady, they say,
"Doesn't work, you need a new air condition."
For example, I want
to call in Israel that was still alive,
my sister or my brother.
I need special to pay more for Israel,
it was expensive when I was working already
made alteration of me I owe me the all time for $4.
I didn't make a lot of money.
To work either or make alteration, everything.
What you go to to Holocaust was not easy.
Then I got sick.
The doctors didn't accept me.
One doctor give me medication.
Tells, "You don't have a car, Mrs. Vapne."
I will give you for four months,
30 pills a month.
I started to lose weight or I couldn't move my hands.
I have the insurance was
Pop insurance or I go to the doctor.
He told, go next building,
they will make a good massage or an ultrasound.
You will feel better.
I go there, they don't accepted my insurance.
They don't pay enough.
Good for the Jewish Federation that helped me a lot.
She come or she look in the books,
all companies when they want you to
take the companies, they give you books.
I couldn't understand all
in the books, what is, you know.
She finds, Sheva,
that far you have who will accept where it's rehab.
Rehab, they will pay how much they wanted.
The rehab need to make the secretary for the doctor.
She didn't make any time, the rehab. And when I go,
they don't accepted my insurance.
I couldn't have in the time
not massage, not ultrasounds.
I got so sick.
Then on the Jewish Federation,
tell me Sheva, you did a mistake.
You make all your bills go for your Social Security.
Go to the bank,
would help you a little more.
When I got sick, my son tell me mom,
make to go directly
for the bank but I see it's not enough.
I also the same bank,
I will put a little.
That was also a mistake.
The Jewish Federation did help me so much.
They stop to fix my air condition.
I need a new one in Florida.
My glasses, I was broken.
They brought me before I left new glasses also.
After my operations is not good anymore my glasses.
I don't have what to do.
My son tell, mom it was in the best hospital,
Emery, they couldn't help you.
What will help you as a doctor.
He will take for your body.
He didn't go to me to the doctor.
What he did is,
son is a student,
need to pay for him or he don't have a standard job.
Also, he saw there was my son or when
I was going in Emery to find a parking.
My God, we spend hours till find a parkment
where you come late to side it for
you them or you did last one by the doctor.
We spent days.
When you paid for your parking,
what is all day there for everything.
I have the Etna insurance,
my son made me when I came back to Atlanta.
Then I paid $103 for
my Social Security for Medicare
was not enough, very little.
That would be finished was so much.
For every visit first month
$355 for the visits we need to pay.
That takes got to Jewish Federation
a little help me to pay the bills.
>> Well, we're going to end there.
And I want to thank you for
sitting down for this interview.