>> Are you good to go?
>> I'm good to go.
>> Well, this is James Newberry,
and I'm here with Mrs.
Clyde Ussery at her home in Marietta,
Georgia, on Thursday,
December 9th, 2021.
Miss Ussery, do you agree to this interview?
>> I do.
>> Thank you so much.
So could you please tell me your full name?
>> It’s Ora,
O-R-A Clyde Ussery, U-S-S-E-R-Y.
>> And what's your birthday?
>> My birthday is February the 20th, 1923.
>> Where were you born?
>> In Meridian, Texas.
That's in Central Texas up between Waco and Ford.
And I was born at
my maternal grandparent's home in Meridian.
That was the county seat of the county we lived in.
>> What were your parents' names?
>> My parents were Ruby and George Rice.
>> And tell me about your father's family.
>> Well, all I know is that actually
the farm that I grew
up on had belonged to my great grandfather,
that's the farthest back I know.
And as I have said,
he found the worst place in
Texas and that's quite an achievement.
It was Johnson Grass Rock.
It was just a bad little farm.
And for some reason or other,
I don't know why my my father inherited this.
I guess they drew lots and
he lost or something, I don't know.
But that's the only thing really I
know about my father's family.
>> And your father served in the first World War?
>> First World War and he was in France.
And that's about the only thing I know about that.
But I remember when I was a kid,
he still had the gas mask
that he used and some other things,
I guess, some of the clothes or something.
I remember that gas mask though.
>> So it wasn't something he really talked about?
>> No.
>> Was it something that
you might have wanted to know more?
Did you ever ask or?
>> Not really. It's something I have found out
about military people that have been in war.
They handle it in two different ways.
We had a friend that he told funny stories about it.
I know that it wasn't funny to him,
man, but that's how he handle it.
He remembered funny things about his friends and
service and some just don't want to talk about it at all.
>> Well,
can you tell me a little about your mother's family?
>> My mother's family actually they were
farmers at one time and lived in a Norwegian community.
But my grandfather was
the County Road Commissioner for years and years
just about all the time I knew him.
>> You said Norwegian.
Had your grandparents immigrated
here or were they descendants of immigrants?
>> I don't know how my family got mixed up with this.
They weren't from the Norway
but they just lived and they were a community of them.
>> Wow. So how did your parents meet?
>> I have no idea. I really don't know.
So evidently, that's something we never
did talk about. [LAUGHTER].
>> Didn't come up. So what
did they do for a living, your parents?
>> Well, my great grandfather
named this place Klondike.
I don't know whether that was unreasonable expectations
or at least have a weird sense of humor.
But we lived on Klondike and my dad farmed and,
at that particular time,
you just eat out a living on a little farm.
And he did odd jobs for other people too.
>> What did he grow?
>> What did grow? Cotton. [LAUGHTER] And well,
corn and some grains too,
but it was mostly cotton.
>> What about your home? What did the home look like?
>> It was just a no house
I don't guess it had ever had paint on it.
The front part had this porch across the front.
Two two big rooms on the front
with what we call shed rooms on
the back and it didn't keep out much of the north wind.
[LAUGHTER]
It was this little bad house.
But during that time,
there were a lot of people lived in tents.
My aunt's family every fall or late in the summer,
they would go to West Texas because where they had
the big cotton farms and
they would pick cotton and stay till the frost came,
and then come back
and a lot of times they would live in a tent when they
came back or in my great uncle's chicken house.
And one year they stayed with us.
People lived where they could find a place.
It was that kind of time.
And I always said that to me,
it's like a black and white movie.
I never saw that time in color.
It was just an unhappy time.
>> Was your house electrified?
>> No. [LAUGHTER] Actually,
we had Lyndon Johnson to thank
for getting electricity in the country.
But that didn't happen
during my time growing up. That was little later.
>> I see. What were your hobbies?
>> I've never had a hobby.
I never have understood hobbies.
I've always read all the time,
but I just considered that a way of life not a hobby.
>> So were you wanting to get away?
Was that something you were thinking about it as a child?
>> All my life, yes. I knew
that there's got to be a better place.
And I didn't complain about it.
I don't guess that much,
but I just knew that was not my home.
>> Well, could your family live off of
what you grew or did you shop for groceries?
>> Shop for groceries,
some of it we grew.
My mother gardened and I canned vegetables and fruits,
and that's pretty much what we
lived on in the wintertime or her garden in the summer.
And she was one of
the first people I think in the community that
had a pressure cooker and a can sealer.
And she did that,
she caned a lot of food and
and if we were lucky would can a beef.
And we did mean to go with the vegetables.
>> How long would that last?
>> You mean the?
>> Canned beef?
>> Canned beef.
>> Just as long as you want it?
>> The long as you want. I guess,
eventually it would not be that good,
but long as it was sealed up, it was okay.
>> Were you close to a town?
>> Well, in Texas,
when they say a little piece down the road,
pack of lunch. [LAUGHTER]
>> It's miles.
>> I don't really know how far it was, but
we were in a reasonable distance from town.
There were two towns that were apparently close.
>> And where did you attend school?
>> I started out in this community where we live
and there were four grades in one class.
I would think that there were
no more than 30 kids and the whole thing was
the four grades and it had seen better days,
I guess, the school house.
The teacher and her husband lived in a half of
it and she told
these four grades that we were all together.
And you know, I don't remember when I learned to read.
I just always could read.
And so when I started,
she promoted me on up to the second grade.
So that's where I was three years in
that school with the one room and four grades.
>> Where did you go from there?
>> I rode the bus and went to
a little village called Mosheim, I think in other states,
they call it Mosheim, but we call it Mosheim and
head the elementary school
in the high school world and one building,
which the facade looked like
the Alamo and it had bad plumbing.
But one good thing about that school,
and this is amazing,
I had a good history teacher in high school.
He was just fresh out of Baylor University.
And just lucky, I guess
because I can't imagine ever having that good a teacher,
but he's the one that taught us critical thinking.
We didn't even know what critical thinking was.
I never heard of it.
But that's what he was teaching us.
And that's when a lot of
bad things were happening in the world.
And Italy and Germany and it kept us up on
that and explained what
was going on, how, what was happening.
And I think that that more than anything else
has contributed to the way
I look at things throughout my life,
but I always question everything.
I hope you do too. [LAUGHTER].
>> I mean, were there other ways that you were learning
about news of the world, news paper, radio?
>> We had a radio and we got newspapers,
and so we knew what was going on,
and on Saturday, you go to the movie
and they had a news got a little news that way too.
But we had radio.
>> What did you think about those events
going on?
>> About what?
>> About the world events,
about war in Europe and
the Pacific, how did that
strike you? What did it make you feel?
>> Well, I don't really know how it made me feel,
but it stayed with me
and it affected the way I look at things.
>> Can you talked a little bit about
people struggling at that time
and going to different places to find work?
So you've talked about this a bit,
but the depression in general,
did you notice a change when that,
you were quite young?
But was that something that was talked about at all,
the depression and how
it was hitting and affecting people?
>> Well, I don't really remember,
let me just, talking about it.
Everybody was struggling,
and just looking for work.
>> How did your family feel about Roosevelt?
>> How did it feel about Roosevelt?
I really don't know.
I don't know. I know how I felt about him.
I always admired him.
But you see, I didn't depend on
my parents for the way I looked
at things because a lot of things we did not agree on.
But really, how they,
I don't know. I really don't know.
>> Were you disagreeing with
them as a young person as a teenager?
>> As a teenager, yes.
>> And how did those disagreements play out?
>> Well, [LAUGHTER] we just agreed to disagree, I guess.
I think one of the things that I remember so much is
I've never understood the way that Sal felt about unions.
Well, my dad felt that way.
He was opposed to unions.
Well, I saw it the other way.
We had a lot of arguments about that.
And I remember that more than anything else, I guess.
>> Was that from reading, from class?
>> Yes. Reading. But I will say this.
I was not a good student in high school.
I was bored with it and
just was eager to get it over with.
And it was the social life of the school.
I think I disliked more than anything else.
And because then when
I got into college, that was different.
That was my time.
>> Did you go to college right after high school?
>> No.
Could there would have been
no way I could have gone to college,
we barely had money to eat.
I didn't go to college until after I was
fired from the aircraft plant that,
as soon as they dropped the bomb on
Hiroshima the women were without a job.
Not the next day,
not the next week we were immediately
without a job. Okay.
>> How were you notified?
>> Well, when we got to work that morning,
we were just turning back at the door.
It was that sudden.
>> Was there a paycheck for
the remaining days you had worked?
>> Oh, yeah. We got paid for it,
but they didn't want the women anymore then.
We gotten way ahead of the story now.
>> I know. Well, we'll circle back.
So I know you had
a job before you went to work during the war.
>> Tell me about that first job.
>> Well, working in a restaurant.
Of course, my first job,
my primary job that started
when I was five years old was picking
cotton, and let me
tell you when you got to be five years old,
they expected you to take it seriously and we did.
And so that's, I worked in the field until
then I worked in a restaurant and at one point,
then I went to
the Houston area and was the car hop.
At that time of the car hops
were the big deal in Houston.
I think at one point,
we had a front page spread
on life magazine of the car hops.
We wore white boots and cowboy hats and little shorts
[LAUGHTER] and what we earned mostly
depending on how [inaudible] did
our customers were. Okay.
>> And you did that in Houston?
>> Port Arthur.
>> For how long?
>> Oh, I had no idea how long,
but that's where I was at Pearl Harbor Day.
Pearl Harbor Day was the first day I had
ever gotten out of the state of Texas.
And Pearl Harbor ruined my day.
[LAUGHTER] I didn't take it lightly,
but it ticked me off.
I had a hot date there and this just ruined everything.
>> How did you hear about it? How did you hear the news?
>> On the radio.
>> Were you in a car?
>> In a car.
>> Where were you headed?
>> Headed over into Louisiana and I'm
not really sure what we were
doing on the coast of the area.
>> Who was the date?
>> Well, if you know your history,
or you're good and didn't nod off during history class,
at that time,
General Claire Chennault was very important.
The Flying Tiger,
the Chennault, well,
he had a bunch of sons,
so the date was
one of the Chennault boys and you know what,
I looked their names up
recently and I couldn't remember which one it was.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So Pearl Harbor wrecked your date
with the Chennault sons?
>> With the son of the Flying Tiger.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So did you have to turn around,
or did you go back to where you had come from?
>> No, we went back,
but it took the edge off the day.
>> And did you leave your job at
that point as a [inaudible]?
>> No. I stayed there a while and
went back home [inaudible].
And while I was there,
I decided to take
this training in sheet metal work and from there,
got the job at Consolidated Aircraft.
I noticed that on the list of questions
that I referred to it as General Dynamics,
but it wasn't General Dynamics
for a long time after that.
It was Continental Airlines.
>> And what motivated you
to go into the sheet metal training?
Was it better pay or what?
>> Well, yes, pay at all.
[LAUGHTER] Anything.
And it would be something to do.
All the time, we were looking for something to do,
so that we could earn some money.
So that's the way I got the job anyway.
>> Did you have friends looking for these jobs too?
>> Not anybody that I remember.
I'm sure there were some,
but I don't remember anybody.
>> So tell me about getting the job at,
you said Continental Airlines? Is that what you said?
>> Not Airlines, Aircraft.
I misspoke it's Consolidated not Continental,
I'm thinking about another thing.
It was Consolidated,
later became Consolidated [inaudible].
>> And where was it located?
>> In Fort Worth.
>> And you were doing the sheet metal training,
how did it lead to that job?
>> Well, evidently, this training group,
they worked with Consolidated
and so when I finished,
I went on and got a job there.
>> And what job did you get?
>> Riveting. We talk about Rosie the Riveter,
well, all the roses were not riveters, but I was.
I did not work on the assembly line,
I worked over at the side.
Do you know what a B-24 Liberator bomber looks like?
>> I have the picture, yeah.
>> With the twin stabilizers.
Well, I did riveting on
the control areas of the wings and the stabilizers.
And I didn't work on the assembly line,
I worked over at the side.
>> How big was the factory?
>> Well, we were told it was a mile long,
the longest assembly line in the world.
>> And how did you get to work every day?
>> With someone that worked there.
I don't know how we got in touch,
but anyway, several people would ride together.
>> And where were you living?
>> Well, I was living in what's
a museum now in Thistle Hill.
A normal man had built
this big mansion for his daughter when she married,
and that was some years before that.
So it had passed its glory days by this time and it
was used for housing for
women who were working at Consolidated.
And like I said,
it had seen its better days but it was beautiful.
I thought it was just beautiful.
But the girls, we were stashed in there,
you didn't have any privacy much.
And some of the girls even
painted over this beautiful wooden paneling,
but it had the double staircase, the circular staircase.
Actually, I haven't seen it since it was made
into a museum and they have redone
the whole thing on the inside and all,
and I was glad about that.
>> Did the company pay for it?
Pay for you to live there?
>> No, we paid our own way.
And I have no idea now what we made or anything,
but a dollar then was different than a dollar now.
>> And were you able to save a lot or did you spend it?
>> I saved some. Actually,
I helped my family some.
We bought war bonds with our savings.
>> Did the company encourage you to do that?
Did you see posters telling you to do that?
Why did you want to do that?
>> I really don't remember.
The best advice I ever got was from my high school,
an English teacher that told me to keep them a journal.
I did not do that.
[LAUGHTER] And now I wish I had.
That's why I encourage
my granddaughters to keep a journal
now because this is a different area to era.
>> It's a good thing to do to remember.
So do you remember who trained you to rivet?
Who were you trained by?
>> I don't remember. We just went in
and somebody showed us what to do, I guess.
I really don't remember.
I remember at first things
were slow for some reason. I don't know.
We didn't have equipment or materials or what.
But one of the hardest things was looking
busy when you were really not busy at all.
But I don't know.
>> Were there more men or more women there working?
>> The were more women. All the men were older men.
And married men were for some reason didn't
join the military or
they weren't accepted in the military.
>> How did you get along with the
women that you were working with?
>> We became friends.
>> What about the men?
>> The men? It was just a job,
and there were men, there were women.
Only there was this cute Baptist preacher who was from
South Carolina but he had come there to go
to Southwestern Theological Seminary.
He could not get in the military because he had
a football knee and
he would whistle at me when he went down the aisle.
When he went to work there,
he was an inspector.
I would see him going up and down the aisle and
that's how I met my husband.
>> Your husband. What was his name?
>> His name was Bill Ussery.
>> And he's a little bit older than you?
>> He what?
>> A little bit older than you?
>> Twelve years.
>> Did you start dating immediately?
>> Probably. [LAUGHTER] I don't remember.
No, I think he was dating
another girl that I knew at that time,
but I don't know how that came to pass.
But anyway, that's the way we met.
>> Well, I want to continue on with that and just a bit.
But before we wrap up with the factory,
you talked about you weren't on the assembly line.
You were in another area.
Was there a group of people working with you?
>> Yeah. Now, the assembly line ran right down through
the center of the building on the sides over here.
That's where I worked. I didn't
work on the assembly line.
>> What did you wear?
>> Real tacky light blue coveralls
and a cap that had a snood.
You know what a snood is? [LAUGHTER].
>> You tied the hair.
>> Get the hair. Put the hair in there and
keep it from getting caught in the drill.
But then we got sick of that and
we changed to pants
and shorts [inaudible] most of us did.
>> Was it clothes that you
bought yourself or did they provide them?
>> Yeah, we bought the clothes.
>> And did you have some sort
of card to get into the factory,
some name badge or something?
>> Yes.
>> So security was high.
And then what about any accidents?
Was there any danger on the factory floor?
>> I'm sure there were accidents.
I can't remember any,
but they were very
cautious about getting cut with the aluminum.
And there was a nurse's station.
Anytime we got a scratch from anything we
were supposed to go in and get that taken care of.
>> Were there Black people or
were Latino people working there?
>> No.
>> Was there a cafeteria?
>> No. We took our lunch in a bag.
>> And then did you have breaks at all during the day?
>> We did have a break, yeah.
I had a break for lunch.
I really don't know.
I think we had maybe
a 15-minute break somewhere in there.
>> And for you,
was it enough money to live at the time?
>> Yeah and save some.
>> So how long did you work
there altogether? Do you remember?
>> No.
>> How many years? Was it years?
>> Yeah, it was years. I guess
I was 18 when I went there and, well.
I don't know. I really don't know how many years,
but it was about 40 years,
I guess, maybe like that.
>> And with Bill Ussery,
your future husband, did y'all
become boyfriend and girlfriend while you were there?
>> Yes. We married while we were
still both working there.
>> When the bomb was dropped in Japan and you
said you lost your job immediately. What about him?
>> He stayed.
>> I see.
>> And he at that time was working on a new plane,
the B-32, I believe,
and so they continued to work on
that then and I guess no more B-24 bombers,
but we're working on something new.
I'm trying to think of the place.
There was another place where they built
the B-24 Liberators,
but we built the most of them there.
I think in all there were over 18,000 B out there.
We did 11,000 of those.
>> Do you know where they were going?
>> I guess most of them were going to Europe.
>> We didn't know at the time.
We just knew they kept rolling out the back door
[LAUGHTER] seven days a week.
>> Did they fly in there at
all or were they taken somewhere?
How did they get them out of there?
>> We were right next to a military base
and we would see them flying off of the runway there.
>> What did you do for fun?
What was the entertainment provided?
>> Let me tell you about that.
All the headliners of the day came to Fort Worth.
I always worked swing shift.
So they would have something for the swing shift,
two performances, the
regular time and then in the middle of the night.
And so we had good entertainment.
And they would even have rodeos
at Will Rogers Coliseum
at one o'clock in the morning for the swing shift.
>> So it happened while you were working?
Did it happen while you were working or did
you leave your shift to go watch?
>> No, it was after work.
>> And was on the site there at the factory?
>> No. And downtown Forth Worth Theatre usually.
>> Did you see a lot of service people around?
>> Well, that was the good thing about
living where I did because we had a lot of
soldiers come in on
the weekend because it
was slim pants for us and
the [LAUGHTER] other consolidated.
[LAUGHTER]
>> All mostly older guys there.
>> [LAUGHTER] Older and married.
There were military people there.
>> Was there a USO around?
>> I have no idea about that.
Did you go dancing ever?
>> I don't remember that,
but we had fun.
I guess some dancing.
>> Well, let's move on to post-factory.
You have lost your job.
Mr. Ussery is still there.
What happens next?
>> Well, in a short period of
time when I lost my job there,
I was an usher at a theater for a while.
But it was nearly time to go back to school in the fall.
And as soon as school opened,
I went to TCU Texas Christian.
He was still working.
I was going to school.
And then later when he was not working there,
went back to his school,
I went with him and stayed until he graduated.
And then he went to his first church in LaGrange,
Texas then coming out from Houston.
And then I went to the University of Texas.
>> Did you complete an undergraduate degree there?
>> No.
>> See, this is a thing.
I went to all of these different schools
because that was where we were.
And that's my working career.
It was the same way.
I did what was available where we were,
not necessarily what I wanted to do.
That's how I got into teaching second grade.
>> So you took classes when you could?
>> Yes.
>> And what were you taking?
>> Well, I was a journalism major and what is that,
but the thing that I really wanted to teach was
Greek language because I started that in the seminary,
and that was a New Testament Greek and everyday language.
And then at the University of Texas,
I took a classical Greek.
But I never got to teach that because we never happened
to be where they needed to teach Greek.
>> So after teaching,
you said what grade did you teach?
>> Second.
>> And then at a certain point,
you went to Maryville College?
>> No. I went to the University of Tennessee
and that's where I finished up
my undergraduate work there
and then later did graduate work at it.
But I also worked in
communications working at television
actually at the University of Tennessee.
It was later on that I became
the director of communications at Maryville College.
>> What kind of television work?
>> We just did programs that
were broadcast on the commercial networks.
>> And that was through the university?
>> I was in a regular television department.
>> So did your husband encourage
you going into these degree programs and working?
>> I'm sorry, I didn't understand.
>> Did your husband encourage?
>> Yes. He did indeed.
>> You were a pastor's wife?
Was there ever any place where
the expectations were different for you,
thought why is she working?
>> I don't think that caver came up,
but it's a difficult thing,
but I did okay.
>> And you had children? What are your children's names?
>> My oldest daughter who is Bren's mother, Sherry.
And then I had another daughter 17 months later,
[inaudible] And then in about nine years or so,
I had a son Mark.
>> And you spent most of
your adult life in Tennessee, is that right?
>> Actually, Yes. Most of it.
I guess the last 50 years
of my life before I came here was in Tennessee.
And you worked for the post was longer than that 60,
I guess, maybe nearly 60.
>> And didn't you work for the Postal Service for time?
>> That was after I retired.
After I left Maryville College,
and then for a while,
I worked some other thing, worked real estate.
But actually, when I did retire,
I started working for
the Postal Service rural letter pay.
And so for ten years, I did that.
>> Did you just like working,
did you need to work?
>> It just as a thing you do.
I think I just always have done that since I was
five years old I just as one of those things.
>> I wanted to talk a little bit about
the political campaigns you were involved in.
>> After I retiring,
if you work for the Postal Service
or any government service,
you don't get involved in politics.
You could vote but you don't talk about
it to your people.
But see, this is where I found my home after I retired.
And that was up on the Cumberland Plateau in Crossville.
And that was my home.
I finally found my home.
And the reason I think it was because I
could do the things I wanted to do
then I could write what I wanted to
write and I could work with in politics,
and just that was what I
wanted to do at that time in my life.
And in my 70s,
that was my high energy time.
And until I left, that's what I did.
>> What specific campaigns were you involved in.
>> I wasn't so much involved in the campaigns.
I just worked in the party and then I
wrote for two different publications paper.
I had a column in the local paper
and a little local magazine
that I had did
two columns two different columns for that.
And those were all politically focused.
>> Current events. Did you ever get any pushback?
>> That always bothered
my husband because he thought it would bother me,
but if I gotten pushed
back I would have felt like I had also doing my job.
So that didn't bother me at all.
>> Is there anything else you would like to share?
>> I'm not sure what I have shared in anybody,
but there is one thing I would like to say.
I would say I think that over the years,
we have not understood education.
I would like to say anybody that is going to college.
It's not about just
memorizing these facts out of the book,
so if you could go
four years and you've never been
challenged or you've never been offended,
then you are asked for your money back.
And because that's what it's all about.
It's learning critical and
making your own mind about things,
not just doing that because
that's the way your family saw it.
That might be the way you'll see it,
but you should do it your own way,
be sure this is what you
believe after you weigh all of the back.
>> Thank you so much.
I appreciate you sitting down with us.
>> I'm not sure that this is what you needed at all,
but it's been fun.
And that's another thing.
Always keep laughing.
See the punished side.
>> I appreciate it, and we will end there.