>> Today is September 20th, 2023.
The interview today is with the Chairwoman of
the County Board of Commissioners, Lisa Cupid.
>> Yes.
>> And I wanted to start with your background.
I know you're the daughter of immigrants from Guyana,
and could you just talk
about your parents and what brought them to America
and maybe how your background
as the child of immigrants maybe shaped what you became?
>> Forgive my limited interpretation of
my parents consideration for coming here.
But I do know that my dad's mom was here first,
and she was working as a nurse and was able
to help make a way for not only my dad and my mom,
but other family members over time.
I can remember her sponsoring people to come to the US.
But it was an opportunity for
people to approve their lop in life.
And I can say from looking at
my parents accomplishments and
that of other family members
that they did accomplish what they originally set out to
do was to come here and improve their quality of life.
>> Do you know about when they came to America?
>> In '70s.
>> Oh in '70s.
>> Excuse me, my parents in the '70s.
My grandmother, I'm not familiar with what year.
>> Further back to that.
Well, I have been doing my research.
The good thing about being from
Guyana is that it's English-speaking.
One of the few places in
South America that you can say that?
>> Exactly. I think that is
a unique aspect of where my parents are from.
There is a Dutch Guyana and a French Guyana.
We are from
the English-speaking [LAUGHTER] country of Guyana.
>> That helps. But notice that
they didn't get their independence until
1966 from the British,
which is quite late, actually.
>> Yes, strong British influence.
I can say that even from a language perspective,
but also just in some observances.
My mother had growing up.
I remember Princess Diana getting married,
and that was a big deal.
And some of the considerations
that they still have for England.
>> I remember an interview with Betty Siegel
and she told the story a number of times of
getting up early to watch the wedding of Princess Diana.
And that was about the time
they were at the beach, I think,
if I may be botching the story, but anyway,
that was where she had applied for the job at Kennesaw,
but hadn't got the word yet.
And the word came that day.
>> Yeah. What a mile stone.
[LAUGHTER] She could say she felt like,
it was a regal opportunity.
>> [LAUGHTER] Exactly.
>> He is here.
>> Your father worked in the
auto industry what did he do?
>> He was originally,
I perceive a manufacturing engineer
and ended up becoming a operations manager.
>> So he had a college degree?
>> Yes, he did.
>> Before he came to America?
>> No. He received it here in
the US at New Jersey Institute of Technology.
>> And so I
guess that explains your suburban background then?
>> Exactly. So with the engineering degree,
my dad ended up moving to a number of places,
and then we eventually settled in Metro Detroit,
where we have the big three automotive companies,
and so that was most of
what I can remember of my dad's career
as being in the automotive industry.
>> Correct. Well, I'm
going to read you a quote that came from your mother.
>> Okay.
>> Yvonne Smith?
>> Yes.
>> This was when you got sworn in one of your elections.
I'm not sure.
May probably 2012, but at any rate,
she was talking about
your childhood and she said that she
knew it was obvious early in your childhood
that whatever your profession turned out to be,
it would be serving others.
And she said,
she's talking about you in high school.
You were taking advanced classes.
You were working in a store and you were teaching violin?
>> [LAUGHTER] I was taking violin,
but I was tutoring during that time. Yes.
>> But she said, "Lisa is willing to help
anyone regardless of their socioeconomic status.
She would get up early in the morning,
stay up late and never complain."
I guarantee you were a workaholic from the beginning.
>> I've got a feeling that I still am. [LAUGHTER]
>> Well, talk about your growing up a little bit.
What was it like in suburban Detroit?
Were you the only Black family in your neighborhood?
Was it a diverse background? What was it like?
>> When you're young, you
observe things differently than when you're older.
But I do remember there being some movement and
transition not only in
our local community but even
in our church, which wasn't far.
And we moved to Southfield, Michigan,
which had a significant Jewish population.
And that probably speaks to my advocacy
for sidewalks because on Saturday,
they would walk to the synagogue.
And so sidewalks was something that I
was always used to seeing in our community.
And also, even the recognition of
Jewish holidays was just a part of our growing up.
But over time, I saw the community become more diverse,
perhaps Jewish families moving.
I could just tell that from looking at
even some documents that
were in our home from the prior owner,
last name, I think,
Rosenthal, which I would presume is a Jewish name.
But looking at the demographics of our community,
even school and church over time,
it became much more diverse,
and I would say diverse
meaning more African Americans moving in.
But not only did we have a diverse community
by way of Jewish households,
but persons from Middle Eastern or
Arab nationality were also
a significant demographic within our community.
We grew up referring to many of them
as Chaldeans that were in our school,
and so I would say it
was very diverse from that perspective from
Middle Eastern to Jewish families
and an African American.
>> They were like [inaudible] or were there tensions?
>> If there were tensions,
they were never observable to me.
I do perceive growing up,
we all interacted irrespective of race,
we played together, did things together.
But I do perceive
that there became a time
where our interactions were more segregated,
where you certainly saw a cluster of students.
Yes, as I've gotten older
because I remember my mom asking me
about why I have certain friends over other friends,
and I never perceived it to be intentional,
it just gravitated that way.
And perhaps you just become aware of
your likenesses or differences,
maybe how you've grown up or certain things
that make you start to
coalesce with persons more like yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> So you graduated from high school, why Georgia Tech?
>> Why Georgia Tech.
>> Of course, it had an excellent engineering program?
>> Exactly.
I think there are some broad considerations for
why an engineering school
and then some things more discrete.
From a broad perspective,
my predominant influence in my life were my parents.
My parents were from a Guanees background,
and there really wasn't a strong
Caribbean population where we grew up.
So I felt that we were a bit insulated.
From a cultural perspective,
there are just some uniquenesses perhaps in
traditions, how you're raised.
But my dominant influence other
than going to church on Sunday was in my home,
and my dad was really
the most dominant influence on me
from a professional perspective.
He would take us to work with him sometimes.
My mother, she
would take us to work with her when she was younger,
but more from a obligatory perspective.
My dad was taking us to show us what he did.
My mom would sometimes have to
take us because there was no other choice.
>> What did your mother do?
>> She was an administrative assistant
for an organization called Wayne Center,
which helped families with special needs.
>> Fantastic.
>> Relative. So perhaps I think some of the service side
may come from my mom and
some of the things that she used expose us to.
>> Probably your father, I guess stereotypically,
the boys going into engineering and
the girls going into something else,
not in your household?
>> It's funny because I was a family of all girls.
And I remember remarking when
my dad would take a shopping that he was
trying to make a boy out of us because we used to wear
polo shirts and little seemingly khaki pants,
pretty conservative dressed home.
And we were very engaged in athletics and sports,
and I know he's had an influence in that.
My mother had us involved in other things.
I could say we probably had a well rounded childhood.
>> What sports did you play?
>> Soccer, of course.
My Dad was a soccer coach when we were younger,
and that's a dominant sport of the Caribbean.
But it gravitated to basketball.
And eventually, I found from playing
basketball that I was pretty fast.
And so I transitioned to running track.
>> Where did you run?
>> I was perhaps most decorated
as a high school athlete in
the hundred and hundred hurdles,
but did everything.
I ran cross country.
For a time, I ran the 200 probably wasn't the best there,
but I remember running everything.
I ran the 300 hurdles.
I used to run everything at a meet and
the most events you can run that I was
observed by an olympic coach and he ended up coaching me
between my junior and senior year. That was pretty neat.
>> Georgia Tech, you had a women's
track team, didn't they?
>> They did.
>> You didn't want to go out for that?
>> I did. I remember speaking
with the coach because she has
a Detroit background as well.
I remember speaking with the coach
about running track at tech.
But the idea of doing sports in college
was really unheard of by my parents.
Why would you go to college to participate in sports?
I really didn't have anybody
really supporting me in that aspect.
And I thought when I go to Tech,
I'll just focus on school.
But when I got to Tech and I saw the athletes,
my heart just gravitated back to that track.
>> So you did run track?
>> I walked on to the team.
But I felt that that probably wasn't
the best way for me to join a team because every year,
my paperwork would somehow get
muddled and I would end up not
getting a chance to compete.
So after that happening during
my second year and your're training up to three,
four hours a day sometimes,
I just decided to turn
my attention towards community service.
And it was very intentional.
The day that I walked away from track,
the next day I opened up the yellow pages and looked for
volunteer and service organizations
and found a boys and girls club.
And that changed my life.
I think it changed my trajectory to even consider
that service was something I would end up
doing in a greater capacity.
>> That's interesting.
>> Yes.
>> I ran track in college.
>> Oh, you did? What did you run?
>> Half mile was my business.
>> Oh. Awesome. So that's speed endurance.
>> I ran cross country.
>> Yes.
>> No, I think I saw that you're still running.
>> I do. And I believe
I'll be a runner for life
if God gives me the opportunity.
Growing up, speaking of
my influence my parents have had on me and my dad,
particularly, he used to get up in the mornings and run.
And I remember a few times he would allow
my sister and I to ride our bikes with him as he ran.
I think that helped to make me a fast runner,
but it's just something that been ingrained. My dad ran.
My mother used to go to the gym on Saturdays.
And I just think being fit and taking care of
our bodies is something that's just
been a part of our household from growing up.
>> Now, somewhere after you got to Georgia Tech,
your parents moved down to
East Cobb, how did that happen?
>> I don't even know. It's after I got to Georgia Tech,
it seemed to happen simultaneously.
>> And wanted to go where you are?
>> It seemed like I was being followed.
But my dad coincidentally got transferred.
I remember in mid August and I was
starting school in mid August,
and so while I was
going and transitioning into the dorms,
my parents were looking for
houses and ended up moving to East Cobb.
>> And somewhere near Johnson Ferry Road?
>> That's right. Off of Johnson Ferry
between Post Oak Trip and Sumo Road.
>> Oh, my God.
>> And I know that because I used to run it.
And there with my parent,
with my dad particularly and sometimes the dog.
>> But you lived in the dorm?
>> My first year,
I lived in the dorm until I
realized that I needed some structure in
my life than what I was willing to give myself.
>> It's better to live in the dorm
with everything going on, I think.
>> I grew up in a pretty, I share with you,
probably isolated very structured,
pretty strict home,
and going to college was overwhelming.
And I was very clear to me,
particularly from a grade perspective,
my second semester that if
I didn't impose some structure,
that I was not going to be able to complete Tech.
So it's weird that I chose to move off a campus
to go live with my parents
because I felt like I needed that.
>> Well, you knew a lot about
transportation early on in Cobb County then?
>> You're right.
>> You had began from Johnson Ferry Road to Georgia Tech.
>> I knew about it intimately because I
remember having this Toyota Tercel.
It was this old Toyota Tercel
and only had one rearview mirror.
This date predated me, it seemed.
And I remember just trying to
get out of the subdivision and make
a left onto Johnson Ferry
and that car would speed up similar houses being,
and all the cars are coming
around the curve in Johnson Ferry.
So yes, I know about the traffic on that road,
and know about the commute from East Cobb
to Atlanta very well.
>> So mechanical engineering,
sounds like you're following your father.
>> Yes.
>> But somewhere along the line, of course,
you graduated in mechanical engineering.
>> I did.
>> So you stuck it out all the way through?
>> That's a good word to use, stuck it out.
I think even prior to going to school,
I started to feel a sense of desire to do something else.
But I didn't have anybody really staring me.
My mother who doesn't have a college degree was
a very strong writer and exposed us to books very early.
But in high school, I wasn't a strong writer
until I went into my senior year,
and I had a teacher just demolish my writing in
front of the class about how poor it was.
But what she did was she taught me how to write.
So she made me read my paper in front of the class,
which she again tore up.
And then she taught me about how to
make my writing come to life.
And she had me read my paper afterwards.
And I loved her after that.
I love this mean lady.
Her name was Mine Weezer.
I remember looking her up, she could have been
Mine Weezer just instead of Mine Weezer.
But she had a very tough way of teaching,
but it made me walk away from her class
with confidence and even interest to want to teach.
And I do have some teachers in my family,
aunts who particularly was in that profession,
but I didn't have anyone to really guide me directly.
And so I ended up getting a post back
in English when I left the field of engineering,
just because I felt there was a part of me
that was very interested in writing.
In fact, I used to have to write
standard operating procedures being an engineer,
and I got to be so good at it that I
was tasked to be the person to
write the standard operating procedures.
So I was just curious about
this unexplored part of
my interest and ended up eventually changing it.
But I think I stuck with
engineering through tech, it was hard.
It's what I knew. I felt I could be gainfully employed.
And there's a part of me even as
an older adult that never wants to let my parents down.
I just felt I owe that to my dad to get that degree.
>> So is Kodak your first job when you got out?
>> Yes, first job when I graduated.
>> And then you took an aptitude test at Kodak?
>> That's funny. I must have shared that somewhere.
So, yes, I was the first recruit at
Kodak in a manufacturing leadership rotation program.
And just by the grace of God,
I got that job because at Tech,
the average grade of a graduate at
the time was a 2.6 and I didn't have the average,
so I didn't know. I didn't.
>> You didn't make all A?
>> I didn't make all A's until my last semester at Tech.
Similar to going to law school,
I made my best grades when I seem to
have the most pressure because I was
running for office in law school and had
babies and I made my best grades then.
>> But you were doing so many other things?
>> Yes. I really was.
>> And grading was a lot tougher.
>> Grading was a lot tougher but somehow
the school knew that tech had a different grading model.
And when they saw my resume,
they saw some of the student leadership experience,
what I did with the Boys and
Girls Club and how that branched off to other things.
And so they asked me, would I be interested in starting
their manufacturing leadership rotation program
where they trained you to become a supervisor,
and I was certainly interested.
And as they grew the program,
they gave the participants
the aptitude tests and during one of them,
I remember that during my review of my aptitude test,
the HR manager over the program called me in
his office and said I was the only one
that scored high on public service.
And he asked me. I never thought
about that as a profession.
And I said, no, not really.
I said, I have a lot of community service experience,
I volunteer a lot.
That's probably why it came up high on the attitude test,
but I think it's so a seat of
discontent that as I was working,
I just started to imagine
myself doing something different.
>> Now, when does Craig come into the picture?
>> Craig, came into the picture at tech.
>> He is electrical engineer?
>> He's an electrical engineer,
and I met him my second
year or summer after my first year.
I was finishing up my sophomore year,
and he was finishing up his freshman year.
And we both went to this leadership program here,
that was at Berry College.
And I remember seeing this person and I thought,
Oh my gosh, he is so handsome.
[LAUGHTER] And when I spoke with him,
I found out he was a year younger than me,
and so I tried to connect him with the athlete.
Yes, that's him, he's that handsome man there, yes.
So I tried to connect him with someone
who I ran track with who was a year younger than me.
And somehow she just didn't know who this person was,
and I laughed at him.
>> You tried to set him up with somebody else?
>> I tried to set him up with somebody else because
I thought he's a nice guy, she's a nice girl.
>> But he was a year younger than you.
>> He was a year younger than me.
I never thought to date someone a year younger than me.
Well, we're married now,
so those thoughts changed.
But I remember her not ever knowing who this guy was.
And then years later,
I looked at this Georgia Tech pamphlet and it had
a snapshot of students in a classroom.
They're sitting in the same role in this pamphlet,
four students down from each other,
and they never knew that
the or she never knew who he was.
I just thought that was ironic.
>> Wow.
>> Yes.
>> So when did you get married?
>> Got married in 2002, July 6th.
>> And so you were well out of school by that time?
>> I was 25 and I graduated from.
>> When you started there [inaudible].
>> So, yes.
I graduated in 2000,
no, I was on the five-year plan.
We started dating my last semester at Tech,
and we got married two years afterwards.
>> So you took your time?
>> It depends, those two years is considered time,
nowadays a lot of
people wait until they're 30s to get married.
>> And when did you move to South Cobb County?
>> We moved August of that year.
>> So 2002?
>> 2002. I may have
still been working in New York or
transitioning to Atlanta at that time.
>> So Kodak, you were in New York?
>> I was in Rochester.
>> So that probably slowed down
the dating process for a while.
>> Yes, a long distance couple.
And we dated by phone and with a new salary,
and my husband still being in college
at times that we could travel.
I would remember visiting him when he got his first job
and him visiting me in New York,
, and we both ended up transferring to
Atlanta after we got married.
>> So where are you working in Atlanta then?
>> Coincidentally, I just
saw a gentleman who
I worked with for Kodak in Lawrenceville.
We had a logistics site.
And so I worked there on a rotational assignment.
While my husband, he was transferred,
he worked initially for Sprint and was
initially in Reston Virginia for
training and then moved here to Atlanta.
>> So you're still
commuting into Atlanta from Cobb County?
>> Yes. Small to Lawrenceville.
[OVERLAPPING] Yes, my husband,
when he got here before I did,
so he looked for homes and he's pretty astute with money,
and he knew we're going to live off
a one engineering salary
and the best buy that he could
find was in the six flags area.
We looked around different places in the perimeter.
And as a student, he lived in the Cumberland area.
I had lived in East Cobb and spent
a semester with my aunt at West Cove.
So we kind of New Cobb.
And when we moved to Austel,
I would travel in the morning with no traffic,
45 minutes to Lawrenceville, and on Friday,
leaving the office at 2:30, at 3:00,
it would take me about an hour
a half, two hours to get home.
>> I've noticed everybody seems to leave
about 2:30 or 3:00 on Friday.
>> Maybe they all had the same idea.
Maybe I should have just stayed
>> Stay in office and everybody's already gone.
Well, that was a long commute.
So you learned something about
transportation from that too?
>> Yes, sir.
>> So you were
involved in a lot of community activities
at the same time.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
I know that that's going to lead to
you involved in politics.
>> My husband was pretty involved student at Tech.
And so we had this idea.
We moved into a neighborhood that was newly built.
That one day we just go
around and meet all of our neighbors.
And so I think that began our interest in the community.
Learned about a civic organization
called the Austol Community Task Force.
And so I started attending their meetings.
And opportunities just seemed to have presented itself.
Beyond that, we were going to Town Hall meetings.
We wanted to know about our community.
And I was involved with the task force.
I remember being involved
and being given a committee assignment.
And at the time, I ended up
transitioning from my career as an engineer
to go back to school.
>> I was going to ask, when is it that
you let's say you go
to Georgia State for public administration?
>> Initially for English.
>> That's what I saw. I was
wondering how that worked out.
>> Interesting.
>> You were going to get a master's in English?
>> So I had this plan.
I told you I started getting a bug in
high school about doing something different.
I thought about engineering, I thought about law,
thought about teaching, excuse me,
law, ended up resting on what I knew.
But as I was working for Kodak,
I told you I just had a seat of unrest.
And I remember just having this epiphany
that I was so used to the technical role,
I would never consider something
different if I didn't just try.
So I decided I was going to have
this game plan and become an attorney.
And I started going to
different seminars and going to law school.
And I remember hearing that if you don't have over a 3.0,
it will probably be less likely
for you to get into law school.
So I thought, well, I can write.
I love the thought of,
learning more about writing,
and so I decided to get a post
back in English from Georgia State.
And so I did that while I was an engineer at Kodak.
And then I did very well at Kodak with
an assignment that I was given that I had
opportunity to move and
I wanted to stay with the company,
but I knew that moving out of
Atlanta wasn't going to be in the cards for me.
So when I came to that cross roads,
I decided to leave Kodak.
Just ended up pursuing my English post back full time,
and prepared for the bar exam
shortly after finishing that degree.
>> So you go to Georgia State Law School?
>> Well, let me even back up, yes,
because it wasn't even that quickly.
So as an English degree student,
I remember having a jury duty
and I didn't quite know what I wanted to do.
I think I wanted to do law,
but I had jury duty,
and I ended up working for someone
who was over the regional business coalition,
which is the chamber umbrella
for all of the chambers in the metro area.
Stephen Lofton, who lived in Cobb.
And that was my first job or insight
into public service and government.
And the bug just bit me,
and I started meeting people like
Sam Olins and David Connell
and seeing the mayor walk through
the Metro Atlanta chamber and seeing developers.
So at that time I lived in the Six Flags area,
heard concerns about my community.
So I started inviting leaders to come to
the Six Flags area to see what we
can do to improve our community.
And through that, I just got an interest in doing more.
So I ended up working for the governor's office.
They had a internship or a fellowship program
that I pursued and was hired there as a policy analyst.
And I think the more I got into the field,
I started to see perhaps what
the next trajectory of my life could look like.
And I thought, Well,
I could better improve my community if I got
an MPA and do some nonprofit work.
But whenever we have
land use and zoning in our community,
these hot shop attorneys seem to know what to do,
and they seem to be steering the course of my community,
and I feel like our community should be
steering the course of our community.
So why don't I get my MPA,
and get my law degree at the same time?
So that gave me the wind beneath
my wings to be serious about the law degree.
So I ended up studying for that,
and my husband helped me in studying for it so much that
he ended up taking the bar exam as well,
and we both got accepted into
Georgia State Law at the same time.
>> So what years were you in law school?
>> Yes. He started,
I believe in 2007,
and I started a year after because I was just
hired at the Governor's Office of Planning and Budget,
and I wanted to work there for a year first.
So I believe I started law school in 2008.
>> And I was just trying to do my math,
I guess this is before you had any kids?
>> Well, not long before.
>> They came about 2010 or something.
>> You know what? I wonder if I
started 2007 because I didn't know I was
pregnant until I was
in my first year of
law school and I had my first child in 2008.
>> 2008?
>> Yes. I can't remember how I found that I was pregnant,
but I don't perceive [inaudible].
When I got accepted I knew I was going
to pursue it because I
remember just having a very unique experience
in my second semester.
I wonder if I started in 2007 versus 2008.
>> And so we can find the right date?
>> Yes.
>> Nobody can remember those dates.
>> It wasn't yesterday, was it?
>> No. It's a few years ago.
Not that many, but a few years ago.
So you go through law school and well,
let me just ask you,
your husband and you have a practiced together right?
>> Well, we never practiced together.
He helped me study for the bar exam.
But it became very clear to
me that our paths were
separating in law school
even before having my first child.
I was working, but very soon after I had my first child.
And he was pursuing law school full time,
me because I was working at OPB initially,
I was pursuing law school part time because of work.
And then I realized because of
having a child and then working that I was
going to have to have another focus.
I ended up leaving work when I started law school,
and that's for another reason, I got laid off in
2008 during that housing downturn.
I was working for a developer at the time.
But I ended up getting a GRA where
I was a research assistant.
I was getting paid through that and I had a child.
And for me, becoming a mom was the most,
what's the word I can use?
Paradigmatic shift for me
because I never perceived myself to be a mom.
I never prepared myself for it.
I didn't do things to me
that I see some of my girlfriends
do that I think are more domesticated.
I was a athlete,
I was pursuing an engineering degree,
I was about my career.
And I realized I never pushed
myself to hold anybody's child.
I was never really interested in
some things that they were interested in.
And then when I had this child,
I realized I felt lost.
I felt that I really didn't know
how to really care for somebody else other than myself,
and I didn't think I was doing the best job I
can for myself at the time.
And so for me,
law school was a struggle
to the extent that as a mom with motherhood,
I struggled to try to transition into
something that I just didn't feel wasn't yes,
but mother nature is a natural evolution of who I was.
But from the trajectory and my habits in life,
it just was something that
was a different life to my life.
So my husband graduated in
three years and it took me about four or five years.
I was getting a MPA at the time too.
And my attention was
gravitating towards building stability in my home
because as I grew up and I saw how
hard my parents worked when
transitioning to the states
and creating a life for me and my sister.
One thing that I think we always felt we were short,
it was time with my parents.
And I didn't want to be
that parent as much as being
a parent felt initially awkward for me.
I knew that I wanted to be present.
And so my husband went to
big law life and I ended up running for office.
I guess so I have a less busy schedule.
But for me, I just never
perceived I was going to be pursuing this full time,
working 12 or 15 hour days
like he did initially, I just knew that.
>> Well, I was wondering I saw somewhere that you were,
at least for a while, were home schooling your kids.
I was just wondering where did you find the time?
>> So this gets into perhaps some things more personal.
>> Just say what you want to say.
>> I ran for office
when I was in my last year of law school.
>> I didn't realize that.
>> Yes.
>> So you hadn't had a chance to take on
the Garvi Sams and the John Mowers and so on?
>> Not as an attorney.
I felt like I was better prepared to begin to address
things because I had some legal background.
But no, I never practiced law.
So my husband when he graduated,
he immediately took the bar. I didn't.
Again, my focus was,
you do the law thing,
I'm going to run for office.
My plan is to serve my family and to serve my community.
And it wasn't until I was pregnant with my third child
while I was in office that I
realized if I don't take the bar now,
I probably will never do it because
my life was busy with children.
But I had a very difficult time in
my life in 2015 with the policing incident.
>> I wanted to ask you about that later on.
Or go ahead and talk about it now.
>> That changed everything in my family's life.
>> Talk about that. I remember
reading about it in the paper at the time.
>> I'll personalize it again talking
about the transition to home school
and then I'll talk about that incident.
>> Okay.
>> But from going
through that and losing a child during that year,
actually having a child, becoming pregnant,
losing a child during that.
The only reason I was taking the bar was
begin I thought I was having another one,
and things just became very stressful.
And my oldest child,
he was a stellar student in a private school.
My youngest child was struggling.
I remember one time telling the teacher, I said,
If you call me one more time
about my youngest child struggling,
I'm just going to bring him to work with
me and educate him myself
because it's kind of interrupting my day.
But I realized one time,
me and my husband got into
a heated argument and it started over
just the homework because
homework was so stressful for us.
We have a long day at work and
that homework would take two or
three hours for these kids who
were only in elementary school
that I remember one day just
feeling like our whole family just needs a reset,
we need to do things differently.
And so we ended up homeschooling to
just reset our family
so that we can put first things first.
And it gave me some time to spend with my children
more and to realize
my son who was struggling was actually a gifted learner.
And my son who was doing excellent in school,
he was a great memorizational learner.
He struggled in comprehensive learning,
and these are things that I didn't
know until I started home
schooling him to learn
their different styles of learning.
But with the policing incident
while I was studying for the bar,
I was studying at home,
and boys have a different relationship with their moms.
And my children,
they are mother's boys growing up.
And I remember my husband saying, Lisa,
if you don't get out of this house to study,
you're not going to pass this bar exam.
>> Get out of the house to study.
>> To study. And he knew
because when he prepared for the bar,
he would just go lock himself in
the basement and I would take my first child.
And I remember one time even taking my child on
a trip so my husband can focus on his exam.
And so I think in his way of returning
the favor and knowing what it took to pass the bar,
he encouraged me not to study at home.
Well, when I ran for office,
I befriended a hotelier.
Well, before I ran for office,
it was my HOA present for a time,
I befriended a hotelier not far from our home,
and he had a conference room.
And so I asked him if I could use
this conference room to study for the bar exam.
>> And this is leading to the policing?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> So I was studying there every night.
Sometimes I would go there,
study all day, study at night,
sometimes till 1:00 and 2:00 in the morning.
And I remember this one particular incident
because I think when you have
a pivotal event that occurs,
you start focusing on
all the things that have transpired.
And I remember leaving the hotel one night
and talking to the staff members before I got in my car,
he and I were just talking in the area where you,
it's the loading area,
unloading area of the hotel,
and my car was parked out in front of it,
and I can't remember what we were talking about,
but I got in my car to go home.
And usually when I go home at those times,
nobody is on the road.
>> Right.
>> And this place was what?
If a mile from my home,
maybe five minute drive,
just right around the corner.
And so I remember seeing a car behind me.
And then as I made a right out,
it was behind me, then I made
a left going down the street,
it was still behind me.
I made a left into my neighborhood
and it made a left behind me,
which seemed, again, very odd.
>> So this is not a police car with markings on it?
>> No, it wasn't a police car.
It was just a vehicle,
which made the whole incident
difficult because this is around the time
where there were these incidents happening
in Atlanta where people would just bump you in the back,
you'd come out and you check
on your car and think it was an accident,
and then they would rob you.
And so as I go up to
my stop sign going up towards my street,
this car starts following you very closely,
and that's when I knew something is wrong here.
And later I found out this was an unmarked car,
the officer didn't have
the equipment in his car to run my plate.
So he's trying to see my license plate and call it in.
All I know was somebody's rearing up to me.
>> Getting very close.
And the car to me at night looked very
seedy because its lights weren't fully bright,
one of the lights was it was either out or partially out.
So it just kind of looked suspect.
And so I thought,
my house is about a few houses
on the left that moved so I can't remember the number,
maybe six houses on the left.
But there's a very short cul de sac on the right.
And I thought, if I go into this cul de sac,
the chances of this car going into this cul de sac of 5,
10 homes out of a neighborhood of
about 300 homes is very small.
So then I'll know if
this person is truly somebody seeding.
When I turn into that cul de sac,
and the person follows me.
So that's when I start
to panic thinking that I'm being targeted.
And I remember just throwing
my bags on the floor looking for my cell phone,
calling 911 and racing
out of my neighborhood and going to
a gas station and just feeling vulnerable.
And after calling 911,
I learned that it was a Cobb County officer.
>> 911 told you?
>> Yeah. And needless to say
that just spun into a whirlwind.
>> Did you ever find out why they were following you?
>> So they stated
that there was crime occurring at the hotel,
so they were staking it out.
Not staking it out, but they were sitting there
trying to proactively kept
somebody in crime and they perceived
that I was somebody there to commit a crime?
>> Why?
>> Because I was there at night,
and that became part of my argument of why I
pushed so hard against the county,
kept telling my story
because it became an issue of presence.
It became an issue of just geographical circumstance.
You are in an area that's a high crime area.
You are at a building that has
crime associate or a business that has
crime associated with it.
You are here at a certain time at night.
We're perhaps used to
addressing crime at certain times the night in this area.
So therefore, for you to be out,
it's for you to perhaps be doing something nefarious.
>> I saw a quote from you about the police
should be policing criminals, and not neighborhoods.
Is that what's happening they're policing a neighborhood?
>> I believe that when they aren't targeted,
that's what ends up happening.
And you know, I can't speak for our officers.
But I think from the communication with leadership,
and just with persons who have
general thoughts about policing and cop,
and policing in certain areas,
that certainly seemed to be
a reasonable interpretation that if you are here,
it's not something can't
be going well with you to be here.
And I glimpse of this and perhaps I
didn't know how cute it was,
and perhaps I did.
So I knew that again,
my husband and I started
getting involved in our community.
We knew from a service perspective,
things were difficult.
I knew after leaving Metro Detroit and I
heard about gunshots in the city of Detroit,
I never heard any in Southfield,
which was the adjacent neighborhood.
But in my neighborhood in South Cobb and still
gunshots were hearing that was a regular occurrence.
And I remember as a law student that we had a career
fair for summer jobs going
to the DA's office in Cobb or the solicitor,
I came was the DA, the solicitor
and seeking a summer position,
and I was telling them where I live.
So I live in this area, I'm looking for a job,
what do you think I should do when
the first response was move?
And that really offended me.
And then I asked them why then they
were told about crime.
So I think there was an attitude,
and I feel like from
subsequent and even preceding conversations I've had,
it's just if you're in this part of the county,
it's just you're in
a no good part of the county and
those that are there are up to no good.
And I certainly got the treatment of that.
But I got the treatment of it as a commissioner.
And I wasn't going to accept that.
>> By that time you were on the commission?
>> I was on the commission.
I was a district commissioner.
And I believed that if
that perception of who I was can be drawn about me,
being one of the top five leaders in this county.
By God, what problem do we really have here?
>> What was the community like at that time?
Was that six wags area overwhelmingly African American?
Was it diverse?
How would you describe of it?
>> Even today, I perceive it to be
overly or overwhelmingly African American.
I think as people move out more from the city.
I've seen the neighborhood
become a more diverse neighborhood,
and I live in probably one of
the first single family neighborhood communities that
was built there in
the mid 2000 off the six flags Parkway.
We had another community that followed.
>> The first single family.
>> Single family
>> So they were living in an apartment?
>> Yes. So I think that's what
contributed to the perception of what was there.
This is a transient area with
mostly nine or 10 apartments that dotted six flags drop.
But I was in a new community off a six flags Parkway.
But I'll still pushed back on
that and even with conversations today
that really a lot of what goes on probably
for any community that's
deemed even perhaps a high crime community,
it's not the majority of
community that's engaged in crime.
It's a higher percentage of crime that
occurs there than other areas.
But that community irrespective of
my single family home community was built there or not,
was still deserving public safety protection,
and not just interrogation.
>> I've thought for years we need
a really good sociological study,
and I think you're doing some of
that now with the county.
Who are the people who are living here?
Why did they come here?
What's the root cause of the crime in the area?
Why did you all move to this area?
You could have moved to Johnson Ferry Road.
Why did you move?
In terms of Cobb becoming more diverse.
Bluntly, did black people move to Cobb County
for the same reasons that
white people moved to Cobb County.
Which is to say,
if you go back to post World War II.
Housing was a whole lot cheaper than it was in Atlanta.
Schools were good, and crime was low.
And you could get a nice lot to live in.
Nice house and a lot and so on might not have a sidewalk.
But those are the things I think
that caused the growth of Cobb County populate,
good parks, good whatever.
And to what degree
was the population coming from Atlanta,
and what degree was it coming from suburban Detroit?
And other suburban areas in the north and elsewhere?
>> I think those are all good questions,
and we've been doing a lot of studies in the county,
inclusive of a strategic plan.
But I don't know if that analysis has been done,
which I'd be very curious.
What I perceive being
a commissioner and even for some of
the things I advocated for,
I think the interests of
those that live in South Cobb are
the interests shared by
other residents that live throughout the county.
You want to create the best future possible
for our families, or for ourselves.
We want good neighborhoods,
good schools, for my husband.
He's a pretty practical guy who considers our resources.
He knew that at the time he
was working in the Sandy Springs area.
I was working in Lawrenceville.
He wanted to be very close to an interstate.
So that we can just get on
the road and go where we need to go.
And he knew there was only so
much money he wanted to spend.
The best community that we saw
was there in the South Cobb area.
>> By the way Craig must have decided he
didn't really want to be an engineering too,
since he went to law school.
>> I remember him saying that from his studying,
that he could marry his interest in
business and in technology by going in the IP space.
And now my husband practices predominantly IP law,
data security of law.
>> So he still use them at [OVERLAPPING].
>> Yes, he is.
>> I think the first time I ever saw you,
was when you were running for office in 2012.
I know you don't remember this at all.
But Dean Bonner asked me if I would
moderate a candidate for him for the Cobb NAACP.
And you were there,
you were running for office for the first time.
>> I remember with my red dress on,
and my hair in curls.
I remember vividly.
>> And why don't we talk about,
what made you decide to run
and that was Woody Thompson's seat at the time?
He had been in 12 years.
There was a gap between his first service and his last.
But most people thought
of him as a pretty good commissioner.
He was a Democrat before he decided to become
a Republican because the county had changed.
>> Is that right?
>> I think that's true. His brother was a Democrat.
>> Democrat, and I know that he became in Democrat.
[OVERLAPPING] I don't know if he
was a Democrat then became a Republican then a Democrat,
but I do know there was a controversy about
him becoming a Democrat after being Republican.
>> He switched back to, I forgot that.
But well, of course,
everybody was Democrats [OVERLAPPING]
and then all of a sudden,
when they decided the voters had going to
the other way, they switched parties.
But any way, talk about
that race and what were the issues?
I know you had a very different perspective
than Woody Thompson did.
Talk about that. Who were your supporters,
and who were the bids?
>> That's a good question.
I'd like to think the mature part of me now,
I would say I'm running for
my community more than I was
running against Woody Thompson.
>> Yeah. That's a good way to put it.
>> But I think perhaps at that time,
I was probably more targeted and
looking at him personally.
>> Wait you were more?
>> Targeted.
>> You were more targeted?
>> Yes. I was I felt like I was running against.
>> Oh, you were?
>> I felt like that. I was running both
for and against. And I say this.
I share with you a bit of
my service trajectory of moving in my neighborhood.
And my interest was not political
as much as it was addressing issues in my neighborhood,
which span different areas.
>> Like zoning.
>> Zoning.
>> Police.
>> Very specific neighborhood concerns that
were supposed to be
addressed with our developer that never were,
commitments that were made that were unmet to gunshots at
night to seeing people
walking in the road because there's no sidewalks,
but we're in industrial area,
the truck traffic competing with residents,
to seeing homeless persons pandering as
soon as you got off the exit,
to seeing the place just look unkept,
to having flooding in
our neighborhood when it would rain too hard.
There were many issues that made me want to get engaged.
>> So basically, you're not getting
the services other parts of the county you are getting.
>> And that's how I felt, again,
after living in other areas,
why was this area not moving forward?
I think when we bought our home,
I had some rose colored glasses
and I just saw that over time,
things were not changing or improving as I
had perceived they would when I first moved in.
And so I was going to meetings, town,
every meeting I could see to go to
town hall meetings, BOC meetings.
All I knew was they were Tuesdays.
I didn't know somewhere in the day, somewhere at night.
And I remember one time going to a meeting and
hearing Commissioner Thompson speak against,
he was the first person to speak against transit service.
>> Against.
>> And I felt like how
can the commissioner of the area that depends
on transit be the first to offer to cut transit services?
At that point, I
knew there was a great disconnect between what
was going on in my community and how
those issues were being considered at the county.
>> Now, is he talking about
rail or is he talking about CCT?
>> I'm talking about CCT.
>> He wanted to cut CCT.
>> So this was during the budget cuts that were being
considered after the recession.
>> After the recession.
>> Yes. And this was again,
I've been serving for so long.
I'll probably start getting involved in county meetings
and civic organization about 2004, 2005.
This meeting didn't occur until about 2010.
So really, I didn't know anything
about running for office.
I really didn't care to run for office.
I just wanted to make sure my area was being served.
>> And I'm going to those meetings,
I realized there is there is a disconnect between
leadership and in this community
in more ways than I had even perceived.
I still didn't want to run for office.
Again, I was at that time,
I was getting my MPA and my JD.
And I remember having conversations with my husband
who was our people in
the community encouraging me to run for office.
And I was even being encouraged to run in 2008.
But even fast forward, I had
my first child may have had my second child.
I just didn't even see this in the cards for me,
even though people were encouraging
me to run.I'll never forget my dad saying to me.
You want to do all this work as a non- profit.
So you can influence people to make decisions for
your community when you can be
the decision maker of your community.
>> So he said that?
>> That just made me realize perhaps I should be
setting the bar a little bit differently.
>> Well, you ran and you won.
>> Yes.
>> I can go back to my question earlier.
Who were your supporters?
Who were some of the people that back when you ran?
>> My community did first.
I lived in about a 300 home community.
I would try to educate them on matters in the community.
Again, I told you I would bring leaders
sometimes to come onto our community.
I would have events for our community
and the neighboring community,
which was built by the same developer.
I think those in that area were supporters.
I also started a non-profit partnership
with different nonprofits in the South Cobb area.
And our goal was so that we could partner.
This was encouraged by Alicia Thomas Morgan.
>> Yeah.
>> She invited me to a federal grant meeting.
>> And she was in the house at that time.?
>> She was in the house at that time.
And I remember a comment
shared in that meeting was that you
have so many people from a community asking for money,
really, if you want strength when it comes time to apply.
I think David Scott held this meeting.
I think he said or her staff said it that
really you should be coming together
and applying thought wow.
I remember sharing with the
representative Morgan after the meeting.
I said, "Wow, I'd be great."
If our communities came together
so we weren't competing for funding.
And I think maybe you can help pull us together.
She said, "Lisa, I think that's a great idea,
except you're going to do it."
[LAUGHTER] So that became the start of that partnership.
And so I had some people who were supported from that.
And then I guess through that I knew
people from different areas of the county.
I started to know people from Mapleton and
then with the task force for Austel,
there was a Powder Springs task force
and Mapleton Improvement coalition.
So we all were in the same world.
So I realized that I knew leaders from other areas
and spread out from there.
>> I've got a quote I wanted to read.
This is from Robin Mayer
who Mapleton Improvement Coalition.
It says, "Whatever the issue is,
she digs deep into it.
She's not generally a person that takes things at
face value or at the sound bite level.
Although I don't necessarily always agree with her,
I never believe that she's where
she is for lack of information."
So it sounds like you always did your homework.
>> I do my best to make decisions
based on how much information I could get at the time.
And if you remember, I used to be a policy analyst.
Sometimes I feel like I never do enough homework.
So that's why it's hard for me to
really say that or took through
with you completely because
I feel like there's so many issues going on.
Sometimes you can't get all the information you want.
But I try to make the best decision I
can make with as much information
as I can get at the time.
>> Now, you're on the commission for
eight years as District 4 Commissioner.
[NOISE] Well,
I guess you're the only African
American on the commission.
And the only Democrat for most of that time, I guess.
Well, this is a quote from
you that I wanted you to talk about,
if I can find the quote.
Let's see, I can't find it right now,
but the gist of the quote is
that you didn't feel included on the commission.
Does that sound correct?
I don't want to dwell on this,
but you were on that commission for
eight years and you're like
the lone ranger out there.
[LAUGHTER] I know that I remember
one run-in with Tim Lee where you ran out of the meeting,
I think, even he attacked you.
And it took a lot
of guts to stick in there
for those eight years, didn't it?
At least it sounds like it to me.
I guess I just
really am interested in what you learned from
those experiences and what it felt like to
be the one dissenter on the commission.
>> I will say this and we use this as a cover.
Most of the decisions we make
will be unanimous decisions.
But again piggybacking off of
that comment from Robin that if I dissent from our board,
I feel pretty strongly about my position.
Whether it's from a data perspective
or a heart perspective.
There's some things that you can get out objective data.
And then there's some things from a values perspective.
I might make decisions based on my value system.
And there were times
when yes I did
speak up with and had a difference of opinion.
>> I did find the quote. It's from 2021.
"As a commissioner, I didn't feel
included on the board." But then you went on.
"A significant priority of mine",
you're a chairwoman by this time,
"Is to ensure that I am at the very
least engaging all our commissioners."
>> Yeah. And I need to stay true to that.
And I think I felt true to that
to a significant extent when I first started.
I don't know if I'm doing the best job of that right now.
>> Well, I'm wondering because of course,
the division on the commission now is
the three Black Democrats and two White Republicans.
>> I think it's causing that tie that would bind us.
I think it's worn it out in some very specific instances.
It was worn out quickly when I first started,
I just realized there was one commissioner
that it was going to be very difficult despite efforts.
And then when the whole issue of redistricting
and city hood cropped up,
it just really created a wedge.
So there were some things that I did.
I used to have meetings with all of the commissioners.
At least that was my goal and I told you
initially was very difficult with one.
So there were meetings with the other three,
but I slowly started seeing that just disappear.
And not out of my desire,
I can't force somebody to meet who doesn't want to meet.
And there were some things
that I tried to do like I instituted some,
of our retreats, we didn't do that before,
and I was a commissioner for most of the time.
And I've done some other things
to help prop up commissioners,
but I think the task
of just trying to keep us together has just worn.
>> Well, it seems to me that when Cobb went from
being all Democrat to all Republican,
there wasn't that much of a shift
on the commission because they've been
conservative Democrats
replaced by conservative Republicans.
It seems to me now, of course,
2020 is a big change in
Cobb County in terms of elected officials.
But it seems to me now that the difference is far
more ideological as the Democrats take over the county.
>> So I think there's tw three, perhaps even more.
So I think there's
just the ideological or political differences of DNR,
and I think perhaps the polarization of
those differences I think is more
exacerbated now than I've ever seen.
And perhaps I'm only see it now
because I'm not the only one.
I couldn't afford to see it before I had
to work with others to get things done.
But I think there's also
a rift between the chair and
commissioners because as a chair,
your office is even isolated from
the other offices in the building.
But you're looking at things from
a whole broad perspective,
and as a commissioner, you're looking
at localized as to you.
So I always think there's just
that natural division and
sometimes tension just to the construct of those roles.
But I also start to see a division as far
as being tenured and being less tenured.
So having new people on
the board and persons who've been there
before I think also created a bit of a challenge.
>> You were 2018 graduate of leadership and I'm just
wondering why did you decide to go through
that program when you're already
in your second term on the commission?
>> Exactly. I put
it off for as long as I felt like I reasonably could.
That being a leader in the county,
that it would make sense to
be a part of a leadership program that's in the county.
But I can tell you my commitment to
my family was paramount to everything,
particularly after 2015 and
even my children were
very young when I was first elected.
I protected that above everything.
And then I protected my district above everything.
So I would rarely go to meetings
that had reached no focus or anything.
I just wanted to focus on district floor and my family.
And I think I couldn't say
no anymore that I felt like it was
something that I just needed to do.
I would get people to nominate
me every year and I would turn it down.
So I ended up participating in the program.
>> So why did you decide to run for chairperson?
At least by 2019,
it looks like you've made up
your mind that you were going to run.
>> Yeah. I think
there are many factors that went into that.
I think a lot of it had to
do with similar to my first run.
A lot of people
weighing in and encouraged me to run for a chair.
And I was just getting so tired of
being sick and tired on the board
that I knew I could not
go another term as a commissioner.
So I told somebody I felt like
you either go hard or you go home.
You give it all you have for
the top position to truly change the dynamic
or you just find something else to do that
couldn't support community and so. That's what I did.
>> That's when you decided to run.
>> Yes.
>> And [inaudible] as commission chair,
he's going to run for reelection.
He beaten Tim Lee
four years earlier over the [inaudible],
probably more than anything.
I'll just read a quote or two from you.
This is 2019 County Courier.
"I think it's time for us in Cobb County
to recalibrate to ensure that
we're being inclusive to
all our stakeholders here in Cobb."
And you said, "We tend to be looking
backwards and narrowly at matters,
instead of looking at how can we make sure this has
the broadest impact on everyone not just for today.".
>> Wow. That sums it up well.
>> So that's why you're running?
>> That's why I run, and that's why I
still continue to serve.
>> What would you say were the issues against Mike Voyce?
>> That's interesting.
>> You and Mike Voyce were
oftentimes on the same side on issues.
>> Yes. For what,
let God rest his soul.
I could only speak from a limited perspective.
He could only speak truly to his perspective.
My observations were I
think he and I had a lot of shared interests,
but I think he was boxed in
by where the majority of the board
was and I felt as if
some decisions that were being made were not helping to
move the concerns that I had
about being mindful of at least I say All of Cobb.
But when I speak mindful of Cobb, at that point,
I'm probably thinking about Elements of District 4,
those that are moderate in income.
Communities of color, those that have traditionally
not been actively engaged.
And I found being
a District commissioner and even a chair,
those pockets exist perhaps beyond.
I know they existed beyond six flags or beyond
some pockets in Mapleton or even the Oak area.
But I felt as if
he was being boxed in not just
by the majority position of the board,
but I think, when
you're running for office and
particularly running for a primary,
running for office here is very polarizing experience
because you win in the primary.
And I think some decisions may have been
considered that we're thinking about that,
but if I look at a Republican primary
and a Democratic primary,
you have people who are being
moved for very different issues.
And I almost felt like he wanted to move things along,
and now I've looking back,
I feel like he was trying to moderate
his position as much as he reasonably could,
understanding the party that he's
representing and who would support him.
But also as chair,
your eyes become open to
the needs of all of the counties.
So I think he was
certainly sensitive to some of the issues that I had.
But when certain decisions being made,
I felt like all he continued to do
was keep us back behind.
And I feel like if you're not moving up,
you're actually not just staying in the position,
but you're moving further behind.
And it got to the point of just absolute frustration.
>> It seemed to me he was very
gracious in defeat when it was
over unlike another candidate in 2020,
who wouldn't accept defeat.
>> Exactly. I mean,
I would say he was gracious before that.
I think we not only agreed on some policy issues,
I think we agreed on some just issues of the heart.
Where we posted we're not going to come
out and attack each other, we're colleagues.
That doesn't mean we probably didn't give each other
an uncomfortable time on occasion,
but I think we just have a certain respect of
persons in a faith that
made this perhaps a respectable race.
>> Well, 2020 was groundbreaking
in lots of ways in Georgia,
I think Cobb County to have an all female commission.
I've acted in 2020 and a female county manager as well.
>> Yes.
>> Who was already in the position
before the election, that's pretty unique.
Do you know of anywhere else in the country that
has an all woman commission?
>> It's funny you say that in the country.
I'm not aware of anywhere else in the state,
but I never perceived the country.
That's a good question.
>> I'd like to know because I've never heard of any,
I mean, I think
County has been very unique in this regard.
>> I really think we have been unique.
But again, I just consider that
uniqueness from a state perspective,
not from a national perspective, but you may.
>> Probably, we need to do
some research on that I guess.
You made a comment in your last state
of the county address.
I forgot what the budget was,
1.2 billion or something like that. Whatever it was.
>> Yes.
>> And you just made a flippant remark
and women in power
were administering it very efficiently?
>> Yes. And I think we have to give ourselves
some credit as thoughts
about what leadership could look like,
what we're able to do.
And we've been able to manage
that budget and still maintain
our county's AAA credit rating
for the time that this board has been in place.
And so when it comes to doing some of
the stable things of having efficient government,
we've been able to keep that reputation for our county.
>> And I think it's a 25 years
in a row that we've had AAA.
>> 26 we received.
>> 26.
>> Yes.
>> And I mean,
I guess it's obvious to everybody,
but it makes a big difference if you've got
AAA rating in terms
of probably money, doing what you need to do.
>> Exactly, I agree.
>> Well, you come in also at the time of a pandemic.
Could you talk about that a little bit.
It certainly took a lot of your time in
those early days that the country
was going through the COVID epidemic.
>> Yes. One of
the blessings and beings of life is that life moves on.
And I think because we've had to move on
from the diness of that event,
I think we don't sometimes reflect and really think about
how all of our lives
came to a screeching halt life as we knew it.
County government as we knew,
service as we knew it.
>> And you weren't having
regular commission meeting for
the public for a while, were you?
>> Correct. We started back
a lot earlier than some others.
So in March, I think things came to its height of 2020.
But I remember in May,
we started meeting I perceived remotely at
that time in our offices with cameras on.
So Cobb was one of the first counties
to start back regular meetings.
And I can't remember when we started meetings in person.
We may have even been meeting as a board in person,
but with mask and distance at the time.
>> It's incredible how much money
came from the federal government.
>> Oh my God.
>> American Rescue, Plan Act, I've got 147 million.
>> Correct. And that followed
132 million from the Cares Act.
>> Oh, that's right. The two together,
you got a half billion.
No way, whatever.
>> A lot of money. [OVERLAPPING].
>> Somewhere around 250 million.
>> Yes, exactly.
>> What's that, that's one quarter billion, isn't it?
And then, well, I know there's a little controversy,
from that commissioner you were
talking about earlier over the
$90 million that went to nonprofit providers.
We don't need to get into that.
>> I just don't consider that to be
more controversial than other.
>> Well, the question
about her husband being on the board.
>> I can't even remember if she
was involved in that or not.
But I don't even know if that had to do
with ARP or Cares Act funding.
I can't even remember the details of it,
but yes, he was [OVERLAPPING].
>> He was on the board of the senor for family resources.
>> Yes. And they were recipient of our Cares Act funding.
Yes. And I think we were trying to ensure that some of
our local organizations were helping with the emergency,
we were distributing either Cares act,
but I believe this is emergency rental assistance.
And we were giving some of those funds
to organizations outside of Cobb and I was
trying to get them to our organizations that
were providing rental assistance in Cobb.
>> So that's what the Center
for Family Resources was doing?
>> Yes. They are significant provider services in
addition to mass ministries and we
also brought sweetwater mission to the table.
But to be honest,
there are about eight or nine organizations
that are traditionally funded through
our CDBG program or
community de Development Block Grant program.
But there was not an appetite to
expand the program beyond five providers,
and we already had two that were outside
of Cobb and so we just
looked at who were the dominant providers.
>> You mentioned the home rule
issue a little bit earlier.
We did an oral history with Jerica Richardson.
And of course, she's the one that was affected by.
When the legislature redistrict her out of her district,
but I guess she's running for Congress.
>> I know.
>> I think we were talking about home
rule when we stopped for
a minute and to me,
it's a very interesting, I guess,
academic type of issue over who should
have control over districting.
And maybe there's a larger question in here too
beyond the issue between the State legislature
or the county commission have control in that do you have
any opinions on what we should be doing in
the country to stop partisan gerrymandering in general.
Not that I'm not saying that
this particular district is partisan gerrymandering.
People can decipher themselves,
or you can tell us what you think,
maybe on a philosophical level,
is it a problem?
It seems to me that it's a problem
in the country and has been forever.
What can we do maybe to make sure that
everybody is represented equally in a country?
Is it having an appointed commission,
can politicians handle this without being partisan?
>> That's a good question.
Maybe it's a combination of the two.
I think we're so far gone.
It's hard to consider how this gets dialed back.
One thing I've learned as an elected official,
it takes some time for you to learn the process,
and then as you're learning the process,
you become an expert in that process.
It's difficult to want to see
things change at that point.
>> As you've become more of an expert,
it's harder to change them?
>> I think so because then,
to me, that would be a diminishment of power.
It took you so long to get it.
Because usually when you start,
it just takes some time to understand and be able to
become effective in that system.
I guess even from a federal level
moving into certain types of
positions or committees or
roles that it's difficult
I think to consider
an elected official depersonalizing it,
to look at a broader interest.
But I do perceive that they are able to represent
their constituency in determining
what the outcome may look
like if something were to be different.
What I see as the result of it is that
our politics are polarizing where you
really win your election in
the primary less people
are paying attention in the primary,
really, those that are more wedded to
those interests that reflect those party interests,
I think it's going to be more acute at the primary level,
which I think fosters that divide.
And there really is no need to
come back to the center when there's
no true debate that would impact outcome.
I would say that. And for a lot of our jurisdictions.
So somebody who looks at this
a lot longer than I would have to probably
propose a better solution than I
can just in sharing my observations.
>> But the county has drawn its map,
and that's in the courts now.
>> Yes. And tongue and cheek,
we've drawn our map.
Really, the map that we've adopted as a map
that was supported by our local delegation.
Which is a majority Democratic
legislation or legislative body.
But the state body is mostly Republican,
and I think that may have lent itself to us not having
the same autonomy that we've had in
the past where if our local delegation passes a map,
that would ultimately be.
>> So by tradition,
if the local delegation wants this map,
it's rubber stamped at the state level,
but not in this case?
>> Yes. And not just this isn't just for county,
it's been other counties across
the state have that similar issue,
which makes it very difficult to
perceive that and this isn't dedo partisan interest.
>> Well, it should be interesting
to see how the courts handle.
>> Yes. And I think what makes
Cobb different than the other jurisdictions,
is that we're the only county I perceive that's
been that has impacted
a sitting elected official in their term.
So this is not the first time lines have been redrawn,
and people have been redrawn
in their districts unfavorably.
I think this is the first time somebody has had
their district drawn while they're in the seat
and expected to not be in
a position to continue serving
because they are drawn outside of their district.
But in this case, she's going to be able to
stay in until her term ends.
Now, certainly she can. Unless.
>> Depending on the court.
>> Depending on the courts,
depending on if the legislature does something different.
And whoever comes next to her,
our maps that we've supported as a county
will be the maps until there's a successful challenge.
>> What? It's interesting, Your Honor.
>> To say the least.
>> To say the least. I wanted to talk about
some of the major policy issues and transit.
We've talked about that earlier on when you were trying
to get from Johnson Ferry Road to Georgia Tech.
>> To the other side of Johnson Road.
>> I guess, we're going to have a referendum next year.
>> That's the plan.
>> That's the plan. And part
of the issue has been over how
long the plan is going to be for?
>> Yes.
>> Ten years, 20 years, 30 years?
>> Yes.
>> Whatever. And also,
for Cobb County historically,
I think there was a feeling that
rail transit is too expensive for a county where
you've got people spread out all over creation and
single family homes and not enough concentration
near the train stations
to make it to
give people an incentive to want to use the rails?
>> Perhaps.
>> That what I've heard.
>> I think of Kennesaw State,
which is 75 North in Cobb county.
How many students are here?
I think this is a good population that could be sourced.
I found it very interesting in
a recent visit that I took to New York,
I visited an uncle in New Jersey by train
in an area that is predominantly single family home.
But yet they have
a rail line that goes into that community and a lot of
their citizens commute to
other parts of New Jersey and to New York that access.
I would have to compare population numbers to see or
the comparison or contrast it with
Cobb to see if it can work there. Why not here?
>> So you want to run rail are you thinking
about running rail s into all parts of the county?
>> Well, let me just concur with you.
I don't necessarily perceive rail
being an option that's viable for all of
the county and I don't know if it will be
initially for any part of the county due to
the significance of cost
the timeline it would take to possibly
acquire property for that undertaking
unlike bus rapid transit,
which can utilize existing roadways.
But the arguments around density.
I don't know if that's conclusive.
And it's arguable that it's not always
a chicken and egg argument because you can build it,
and that density might follow versus
having to build it only because that density preceded it.
In an area like KSU,
where you know you're going to
continue to grow as a university.
You have a sizable population.
So that's why I hesitated when
you stated that because who's to say that
there could not be significant value
today having rail here to
bring Metro Atlanta to
the doorstep because
Kennesaw State is attracting students.
Certainly throughout Cobb throughout
Metro Atlanta, throughout the state,
throughout the nation, or region,
and even the world.
So you can't tell me that
the Cumberland area couldn't be ripe
for it based off of its development today,
or that KSU couldn't be ripe for it.
Arguably, there are other parts of the county,
perhaps the six flags area
could couldn't be ripe for it today,
but I don't know if there is
the willingness to invest the type of dollars for rails.
>> Expensive. And the question is,
where would you put the rails if you ran
them right down 975?
>> And that's the challenge with having
an already built out environment because to build it in
a place that's built out would sure have
more engineering costs to even
create that type of
project to understand the feasibility.
>> Do we know who range the buses?
I think when we started CCT,
the argument was it's going to help people get to work.
>> So there was a study done in the county in 2016,
I think a McCaflin study that identified 80%
of our users at that time are
using it to get to school or to work.
So that's a number that I go to often to
signify the importance of rail to us,
not just solely from
a transportation lens but from
a workforce and economic development lens.
>> I guess it's related
to transit but you were talking about
sidewalks earlier and there's a term pedestrian deserts.
I guess we've got plenty of pedestrian deserts in
Cobb County where you take
your life in your hands to get out and walk?
>> Exactly. Won't even call it a desert,
probably a term that's more dire because
that's exactly what it feels like when
you're walking just in
dealing with traffic during the day and if you can
imagine walking at times where it's
darker at night and there's the poor visibility factor.
This multiplies the risk that a lot of people that
are utilizing their two feet to get from
point A to point B are facing.
>> I think you've been very much concerned
recently about pay for
public employees and making it possible for them to
make enough money to actually
live in the communities that they're serving.
I think you said in your state of
the county address that we've got a $17 minimum wage?
>> Yes. I think if you work here,
you should be able to live here.
And if we're creating
an environment where that's not possible,
then we better be supportive of how we get people here.
You just can't have both and
think that we're going to have
a structurally sound place to live in and to shop in.
It just doesn't work that way and I think it's been
a very difficult argument to make
about how livability and transportation fit,
but also how livability
and the service level of our county also
dovetail that was we were being mindful of
serving our residents so that they can
have a high quality of life here that costs money.
Not just from an infrastructure perspective,
but from a service perspective,
we have to pay people to deliver
the service and if you're expecting
a high quality of service.
That costs a commensurate amount of money as well.
>> You're a ARC representative when
you're doing your study of the county address.
If I heard him correctly, he said,
half of Cobb residents spend
over 30% of their income on rent.
And that's higher than it's supposed to be I guess.
>> Correct.
>> And I was listening to a radio show
this morning that has learning
some new terms like middle housing and up zoning.
I wanted to ask you,
I think it's fair to say that you're in favor of
more affordable housing in
Cobb County and I know it's controversial.
>> Yes.
>> But do you have any thoughts
on how I guess one of the things I was
hearing this morning or somewhere
that it's just a lot of supply and
demand that the demand for
housing is much greater than the supply?
>> Correct.
>> And a big part of the problem that we I mean,
I've seen it in Marietta,
duplex houses disappear to be
replaced with $400,000 town houses.
But a big part of
the problem been government, been zoning?
>> Yes.
>> That that I guess middle housing
which smaller houses basically have been
zoned out because of density issues or whatever?
>> Yeah.
>> I guess there's a question in here somewhere.
What's your vision of what the county
ought to be like in terms of housing
and should there be more affordable housing?
Where is it going to come from?
Is it going to be churches building things
on some of their properties
or how are we going to do this?
>> We're trying to understand that.
And we recently had
the Atlanta Regional Commission conduct
a study of our housing inventory,
and they provided some suggestions on
policy for us to begin to tackle
this complex but serious
need nationally and certainly locally.
I don't have all of the answers,
I can share with you
some observations and one of them as recent as yesterday.
We had a zoning for single family senior homes.
That was asking for a greater density
than what the future land use map
said this area would have.
And there was an interest to
reduce the number of homes that could
be within the future land use map specifications.
But the district commissioner provided
an opportunity for them to build more homes.
So it gets them a greater density but
not the greatest density that they desire.
Certainly, the more homes you build,
probably the more shared cost between
each of the homes and the developer can reduce the cost.
So there may be some question of affordability,
I guess, also supply and demand
if there are more units out there.
But I think that what she did was she
considered how could she provide a greater supply,
but in a way that was
consistent with the character of a community.
And if there are
not wholesale changes to future land use,
which is that comprehensive look at development
and where the community and
the commissioners desire the community to go,
I think whatever you do to address affordability
should be similar to what we've planned for.
So either those future land use plans need
to change or we look at how
we can perhaps increase
what we're providing within that framework.
So she was able to do that yesterday,
I believe, with a concession.
I think there's also another way
which could be of controversy,
but get to the duplex argument is that you can look at
your existing inventory and
character that I may have a single family home community,
but it has that single family in that single family home.
But there are some communities that may allow
the home to be partitioned
so that two families can live there.
That was from a structural perspective.
It has the same look,
but you're providing more opportunity
for people to live there.
>> We did it during World War II.
>> Tell me because I want to share. You said what?
>> During World War II, we did.
House I'm living in now was divided in World War II.
>> It's interesting you share that
because sometimes I think
we need to realize we're not
always reinventing the wheel.
And sometimes when new ideas are shared,
it's such a shock to the way things are
that it's not perceived that at some point,
this idea truly had utility,
and it was actually implemented.
I'm going to share that,
I know this was implemented then,
but I lived in Rochester, New York,
and my twin sister who lives in Louisville, Kentucky.
And you see these older homes that have been partitioned.
And it's just I mean,
so interesting the vibrancy
that comes out of these communities.
You see younger people living there.
Some of the same establishments,
you may see seniors who are living there,
who are trying to perhaps not have to
take care of all of the landscaping of a property.
So what's been done, but you know,
then it gets to density of
not just the physical structure.
Do people not want other people living by them
or only want a certain number of people living by them?
And then there's a thought of this is
a family living next to me even though
it could be an individual
because we also have restrictions on
how many unrelated people can
live in a single family residence.
So the character is not just a structure itself,
the character becomes who are those people by me?
How are they living by me?
Yeah. And it's very difficult to overcome
that when you have an elected official
that wants to zone in a way that comports with
those that are actively engaged in the zoning process.
You want to be responsive as an elected official,
but you want to be responsive to who's in front of you,
but also to those broader needs,
and I think that's where the challenge is.
>> Yeah. Okay. You've done a disparity,
I think you called it a disparity study?
>> Yeah.
>> Which I guess is really designed to bring
more minority owned businesses to where they
can do business with the county, is that the idea?
>> Yeah. So we just awarded a contract to have
an economic disparity study completed.
And it's a legal step for any procurement department,
I believe in government to set
any goals around particular populations,
whether it's women owned businesses,
minority owned businesses,
and we're also looking at
service disabled veteran owned businesses.
>> So veterans,
but veterans who are disabled?
>> Yes, who were disabled in the service.
And in some this is a term that's identified through
the small business administration where there are
certain considerations for that class,
which is why it's so tightly labeled,
so we are consistent.
>> So this would be to give them
a fair shot of getting government contract?
>> Yes. And you say a fair shot.
So looking at their proportion in the population scene,
can we provide a goal number that's commensurate
to their proportional existence within the market?
>> Okay. I wanted to ask you about the Braves.
>> I was thinking about that. He's not going to
talk about the hottest topic.
>> Well, I don't want to miss that then.
I know you voted against the deal originally to
bring the Braves here because you
said they hadn't studied it enough.
Needed more discussion,
and you don't want to talk about that.
But you're a big supporter of the Braves now.
>> And I want to say I've never
been unsupportive of the Braves.
I have not been a fan of
the terms and the timing and the level of
transparency of how we crafted
those initial agreements to
have them come into the county,
which created this framework of
how they were going to exist here.
And I believe that if we spent more time going through
the terms of this document that we could have
had a greater return to the county.
Don't get me wrong.
We've had a great return to the county.
We could have had an even greater return
that could have considered
some other positive impacts
that the stadium could have had here.
>> I guess there was a question at
the time of a debate at least over
how much of an economic impact the Braves were having
in light of how much
the county was paying to get them here.
You have any thoughts on that?
>> Yes. [LAUGHTER]
>> I'm sure you do.
>> Look, this is a significant investment.
And again talking about timing,
one of the things that made this
challenging at the time to consider
this $650 million joint venture is
that we were still coming out of
the detrimental impact that
recession of 2008-2009 was having in the county.
So a lot of our service levels weren't even
restored to pre-recession levels at the time.
And we were always telling our citizens,
our staff just wait.
We'll get there.
And so you don't have money to restore
your service levels to what they have been in the past,
but all of a sudden you find
hundreds of millions of dollars to
spend on something that is
far outside the scope of
traditional considerations of public service.
So that was the challenge at the time.
I don't think that COP
could be innovative or should be innovative or
should invest in things that help to buoy our county.
It was just the cloak of
those circumstances that made this very
difficult to just come out and support.
>> The Battery seems to be booming economically.
>> Look, every time I go to the Battery I'm
just intrigued by the viracy out there.
It doesn't matter what day of
the week, what time of the week.
People are out there eating, shopping,
kids are playing in the greens,
it's a vibrant place.
>> I think the interesting thing is that
the Braves didn't add to
the traffic problem so much because
people were getting there early and staying late.
>> That's a good point, and I
thought that was well thought out of that.
People really spend
a whole day there when there's a game.
Hopefully want them to spend the night there
too with one of the hotels.
>> Yeah. And apparently,
a lot of young couples are moving into that area too.
>> Yeah, I think the Cumberland area has
perhaps always been considered more of
a urban approaching area of non-urban.
So I really think
younger families have been attracted
to that area and Smyrna.
Smyrna is one of our
more family-oriented communities with younger families.
>> Well, I wanted to kind of wind things up with
some maybe visionary type questions
of where you think Cobb County is going.
You said in your state of the county address that
embracing diversity is our economic future.
Can you maybe elaborate on that a little bit.
Embracing diversity is our economic future and
we're right on the cusp if we're
not there already of being a majority-minority county.
Kennesaw is a majority-minority student body already.
Faculty is not there yet,
but student body certainly is
and it's become a
little bit more diverse with
each passing year, it seems like.
What's the connection with
embracing diversity in our economic future?
>> So let's look at this from
just a statistical perspective.
If you were to look at
the socioeconomic character of the county,
what is the median income
of a certain household based on raised?
There are disparities,
if you were to look across racial lines.
But yet a lot of
your economic momentum comes
from those median income levels.
I'm able to attract certain types of businesses.
They know who's going to frequent there.
I've even had banks say there has to be
a certain home price there for
them to consider moving into an area.
So if you're looking to the activation of an area,
if we have a growing minority population that is not as
economically solvent as others and they're growing,
that means that we might see
that economic median income fall.
So to me if we want to maintain
our strength and vibrancy and vitality as a county,
we want everyone doing well and
improving where they are on that economic spectrum.
Now, economic or I would say income level is
strongly correlated with education levels,
and that is strongly
correlated with the strength of your school.
So if we want to maintain
our strong school system as a county,
there should also be consideration
around the income levels
around our schools and educational attainment.
So if you were to look at one of
these very glaring maps that I viewed from these engines
that assess the quality of schools
and you were to look where the green flags
are on one of these maps
and look where the red flags are,
they are strongly correlated with income levels
here at the county where the red flags are
more strongly correlated in
those limited income minority areas
but I'm growing in minority population.
I think it's important to look at how
our education system is being responsive to
communities of color to make sure that
those students are able to be
just as successful as the majority of our populations.
And from a building perspective,
I think it's important for us to
look at how we don't desegregate
housing so that we are pigeonholing
areas to always have challenges with schools,
with challenges with attracting grocery stores or
other amenities and look at how do we
create a possibility for having
mixed income in these communities so that
we don't have areas that are well established that
continue to move ahead and
areas that are just in decline.
So it's from a geographic perspective,
but as you said, also,
from a demographic perspective, again,
as persons of color are moving throughout the county,
just making sure that we are doing things to ensure
that everybody is going to be doing well here.
And I look at that from a business perspective.
And if you have minority
businesses and they're faring well,
they might be hiring minority employees.
They're increasing the likelihood
that everybody in their organization
is going to be able to do better economically.
So to me, it just makes
sense as we're diversifying as a county just
to make sure that we are doing
those things that will keep us
economically viable into the future.
>> Is that the ARC study
available to the public now, is it?
>> That's a good question.
It can be if it isn't.
I don't know, but it certainly can.
>> I'd certainly like to read it.
>> Yeah. I think it's worth posting.
>> It's Interesting to me
that as the county has become more diverse,
it has remained just as
affluent as it ever was, if not more so.
>> Interesting.
>> Although that's taking the median.
>> That's a very good observation.
>> There could still be a whole lot of
people that are way below
the median that I know you're concerned about it.
>> That gets to an observation that you've made is do you
perceive that persons of color are moving
here for the same reasons that others are moving here?
And perhaps so. For one,
if you look at home prices,
certainly you would think that those moving into
single family homes are those that
can't afford to move here.
And perhaps there's becoming greater parity
amongst our citizens irrespective of race
based on just their income.
There's probably persons again
who are earning more
and able to afford more here in Cobb.
>> You said that a Georgia
trend interview a couple of years ago.
I guess the question is, are you optimistic about
the county's future and you said
the future belongs to the optimists.
Even when there are challenges,
you can't lead focusing on the difficulties.
I have to think what are the opportunities.
>> Yes.
>> I thought that was a great statement.
I just wonder if you elaborate a little bit on what
you say is the future for Cobb County.
>> Or perhaps I can look at it through our optimist list.
>> Maybe I should ask what do you want the county
to be 20 years from now.
>> So I think we continue to
build on our strengths with,
we have a great school system.
Generally I share with you some pockets
where performance levels are different.
We do have beautiful communities, great amenities.
We continue to attract top businesses here.
What's the secret sauce?
Let's keep that going,
but I think we have to ensure that
the pockets that we have that aren't
as successful have the ability to be.
So it might not be that we create
another Cumberland town center area,
but how do we have more broad scale
neighborhood development that could be
building the economic strengths of
communities that are right for redevelopment.
I think is an opportunity.
Something that I think people can
rally around is to me having
those walkable or bikeable areas.
People love park recreation and I'm very proud of
our parks and recreation department
and amenities that we have here,
but are they accessible,
could people get there,
could they walk there, could they run there?
Also, I think people are getting around differently,
so making sure that we have those options available.
80% of our riders are
utilizing our bus system to get to school and to work.
We want to make sure we continue to be
a strongly educated county and people
get to KSU conveniently through the county.
We could provide services that
can help to bring areas of the county
that wouldn't traditionally get here by
car here to the county,
and something that I was alluding to with the sidewalks,
are we a healthy county coming out of the pandemic?
I've learned that those that
were probably more susceptible to death where
those that had probably
health challenges even leading into the pandemic.
So what are some things that we can
do, whether it's sidewalks,
giving people an opportunity to
walk through their community
or looking at how we're
distributing amenities throughout the county.
Are there grocery stores that people can get to,
how is our health service
being provided throughout the county?
I think there's a number 14% of
our residents here don't have insurance.
>> Really?
>> Yes. So there are some things to look at,
even not just from a built perspective
or just a raise and income perspective,
but some of those other indicators
that hint towards the health of our community.
>> Well, you've won every award in the world
I guess and woman of
distinction from co-executive women
and I could go on and on.
There's a whole laundry there for award.
>> I have to do that.
>> You've won a lot of them.
I just wonder maybe we could and I know you're probably
not thinking any further than the 2024 election,
but I wrote down in my notes
and thought beyond 19th 2024,
but I'm in 2024.
What's your aspirations for the next decade?
>> I look forward to having a whole week
where I get eight hours of sleep per night.
I think that's going to be in my future.
>> You can't do all you do and get much sleep at night.
>> And really that's a serious goal because I
try to be as present for my family as
I try to be towards the community and
so the reality is it means that I sacrifice.
Some time that I have for
some basic things and inclusive of that.
I never perceived in
most years of my life that I would ever
be in the position that I'm in today.
I don't think that I've gotten here by
setting my eyes on a particular position.
I've gotten to this point of my life through service.
I want to lean with that and perceive that
whatever doors open for me will lead off with me serving.
What I would like to do perhaps is
be even more intentional about that though,
with another term as chair and maybe beyond it.
Something that I've been
mindful of our younger population,
I've started a youth commission,
but I've also started COB 101 to make
sure that information about how
Cobb County runs is being shared
broadly because I believe the more educated people are,
the more engaged they will be
because they understand how government
runs and the more effective they
can be in impacting its outcome,
so educating the public
I think will probably be something I want to be
even more intentional about
bringing in younger people
because as my children get older
and I get older I see that if we are
not bringing people up
then we can't complain about the rift or divide,
lack of knowledge that people may have about
local government and so
there's more I want to do with that.
I also have a heart towards the underserved and I have
this law degree and I always wanted to
be an advocate for the voice listen.
Somehow I still need to convince myself
that I'm passionately doing that work
as an elected official
and I want to be doing that work as an elected official.
There's just a different approach to doing that.
I think as an attorney practicing in
a courtroom than someone who's a policymaker,
but I want to make sure that my time is
spent bringing up people who have not
necessarily been reflected in
our policies so that
everybody here has a chance of success.
>> Is there anything that you wanted to talk
about that we haven't asked this interview?
>> I'm thinking about that. Again, when I came back
from the rest room I was thinking about the braves
wondering how we talk about the braves because
I think that was
a defining moment in my life
because that was a defining moment
for me as a commissioner.
I can't think of anything in particular right now.
>> Well, I think what you just said
is a good way to end the interview.
So we'll just stop it at this point.
Thank you very much.
>> You're very welcome.
>> Appreciate your time.
>> Thank you.