>> My name is Helen Thomas.
I'm outreach archivist for Kennesaw State University.
Today is Wednesday, May 31st, 2023.
And today, I'm speaking with Mrs. Jane Cleveland Mantel.
Is it Mantel or Mantel?
>> Mantel.
>> Mantel, we're going to be talking about her time
as a member of the Lorelei
Ladies softball team in Atlanta.
So Ms. Mantel, I'm so grateful for
you to take the time to speak with me today.
And I'll just start off by
asking where and when were you born.
>> I was born in Blakely, B-L-A-K-E-L-Y, Georgia.
It's on the Florida line.
September 4, 1931.
>> And what did your parents do for a living?
>> When did they what?
>> What did your parents do for a living?
>> My mother at the time was a practical nurse,
but when she met my father she gave that
up. And what was the other question?
>> And what did your father do?
>> My father mostly was a semi-pro baseball player.
>> Really?
>> The city teams wherever he lived,
he belonged to the city team.
And he was a short stop and a second base.
>> Wow. So baseball sounds
like it was a big part of your childhood?
>> Right. What was that?
>> Baseball was a big part of your childhood?
>> You're right. Exactly. I went
to the games and in fact,
I used to sell drinks and things
to the fans, things like that.
>> Wow. So did you spend most of
your young life in Blakely or in that part of the state?
>> No.
When my mother married,
we were living, I'm not sure where,
it was in Georgia.
I forget the name of the town where they
were living when I got married?
>> Thomaston?
>> No we lived there later.
I went to school in Thomaston, Georgia,
and Bainbridge, Georgia.
>> Bainbridge.
>> Which is in the South.
>> That was your mother remarried?
>> No. She didn't.
She never remarried.
I think they got divorced when I
was maybe four or five or something like that.
>> I see.
>> So I really never lived with him until I was grown.
>> I see.
>> A lot of school life,
I lived with my father in Atlanta, he and his wife.
And then my mother came to Atlanta,
and then I moved in with my mother.
And I had a very nice life.
>> When did you move to Atlanta?
When did you move to Atlanta?
>> I would say it was around '50, '51.
>> So you would have been 1920?
>> I would say so.
>> That's right.
>> And what did you move to Atlanta for?
>> To work. I was the secretary.
I studied shorthand in typing.
>> Where did you study?
>> Where?
>> Yes. Where did you go to school for that?
>> I lived with my aunt and uncle in Selma, Alabama.
It was a sacred heart.
It was a Catholic school.
>> Oh, I see.
>> It was only for two years.
And I chose to go that route instead of going to college.
>> Do you remember where you
worked as a secretary in Atlanta?
>> As a secretary, I worked for the State of
Georgia in the Children's Welfare Department.
>> And how long did you have that job?
>> I would say two or three years, I think.
I got married in 1954.
That's when my husband
was going to Georgia Tech at the time.
>> How did you find out about the Lorelei Ladies?
>> Before I got married,
before I met my husband,
I needed a car to get around.
So I went, I think it was Hertz,
and I bought a '49 Ford.
And I was talking to the manager,
and I think he was involved with the Lorelei Ladies,
and he told me about them.
I was always interested in sports.
>> That's great.
>> I played [NOISE] baseball when I was growing
up with the San Loch teams.
I only played with the boys.
I didn't play with the girls.
>> Well, there may not have been
as many opportunities for girls at that time?
>> It wasn't, no.
>> Do you know how long the Lorelei Ladies had
been around by the time you joined the team?
>> I really don't remember.
>> But they were established?
They already had a team going and
everything, by the time you joined?
>> They were established, yes.
>> Did you have to try out?
>> Yes, I did.
I guess I passed because they welcomed me.
And they were very loving, nice girls.
We had a lot of fun together.
>> What position did you play on the team?
>> Whatever they wanted, except catching.
>> And how long were you a member of the team?
>> Well, as I recall I got married in '54.
I guess maybe a couple of years at the most.
>> And you would have been in your early 20s at the time?
>> I would say about 19, 20.
>> So where did you-all play games?
>> It wasn't too far from where I worked.
I worked at the Georgia State Capitol.
It was right near the dome.
There was a dome. I guess the dome is still there,
and it was right across the street.
It was a Georgia State building.
The State of Georgia.
It was in the welfare department.
My department was when IBM first started
and their computer was about as big this room almost.
The computers back then were very big.
And I worked on
an addressograph machine and it punched holes in
cards and those cards were inserted into a machine
that produced welfare checks for people that were poor.
It was quite interesting.
And people in my department,
we would go on holidays together.
We went to Daytona Beach and I got extremely burned.
That's why I'm suffering today.
But it was a nice close-knit family
of work because I enjoyed it very much.
>> That's good. You would
have played games on
that same field near where you were working.
Was that also where you held practices?
>> Yeah. We held practices there.
I don't think it was far,
not too far from where I worked, I think.
>> So I know that the team sponsor was,
I think his name was Holly Lough,
and I think that may have been the man who you met.
>> I think he was, yes.
>> Do you have any other memories of him
aside from getting you on the team in the first place?
>> No. He was very friendly and nice
and very easy with the payments on the car.
I bought it on the never-never plan.
>> What was the never-never plan?
>> Whenever I could afford to pay him.
He didn't really have a contract.
I forget how much I paid for that car.
It was a '49 Ford.
The beautiful car.
>> Did you have a team coach?
>> I'm sure we did, but I don't remember him.
>> What teams did you play against?
Do you remember anything about them?
>> When I played with?
>> What were the teams that
the Lorelei Ladies would play?
I think that there was one called the Tomboys.
>> I don't remember what their names were.
They were all good.
Much better than me.
I was a little tiny thing,
and I didn't have much power.
But I substituted,
I played whatever they wanted me to.
I really enjoyed it.
>> That's great.
>> If I had a ball in my hand,
I was very happy.
>> That's good. I know that
we talked a bit about
some memories you have of traveling.
Did you travel for games?
>> Well, I traveled with them to Phoenix.
And I probably traveled around Atlanta.
But I remember the time we went to Phoenix,
it was very hot.
>> I think I had looked this up.
Was that the world tournament in Phoenix in 1951?
>> Yes.
>> Do you remember how well the team did?
>> We didn't win. I'm not too
sure what position we ended up.
>> Did you drive all the way there or did you fly?
>> Drove.
>> Wow.
>> There were six girls in the car,
three in front and three in the back.
And as I recall,
I don't know if we had air conditioning or not,
but very, very hot.
Phoenix was very, very hot.
I'll always remember the heat.
I don't even think the hotel had air conditioning.
But we really we went horseback riding and it was fun.
>> That sounds fun.
You mentioned that you had
a good time with your teammates.
What do you remember about them?
Were they mostly from
the Atlanta area or were they from all over?
>> I think they were mostly from Atlanta.
I never had a real bosom buddy on the team.
But we had a lot of fun playing together.
But I didn't socialize,
I wasn't a very social person.
[LAUGHTER]
>> About how old were the other players?
Were you all all about the same age?
>> I would think so, maybe some were a little older.
>> Do you think they had job similar to yours?
Do you know what all they did for a living?
>> No, I don't remember what they did for a living,
but I would imagine so.
>> Were they mostly single women,
were any of them married?
>> I think a couple were married, but mostly single.
>> So I know that
the Lorelei Ladies also had a basketball team.
Did you just play softball or did
you do anything with the basketball team?
>> Softball.
>> Just softball? Do you remember
that they had a basketball team?
>> Now, thinking back,
if I had thought they had a basketball team,
I would have thought that I would try to join
it because I love basketball, too.
But maybe I didn't know about the basketball team.
>> That may have been before your time.
I know that they had a basketball team for
a while that would play out at Southern Tech,
which is part of KSU now.
So I was just wondering if that was still
around when you were playing,
but it may not have been.
>> I'm not sure.
>> Can you tell me when you left the team and why?
>> Well, I met my husband and
that put it into my softball.
Of course, he didn't particularly like sports.
He was a Georgia Tech guy.
And we went to a lot of movies,
and so my playing days were just about over.
>> You just got too busy?
>> I got too busy.
>> And then when did you get married?
>> April 1954.
>> April of 1954.
>> Did you all stay in Atlanta or did you move?
>> Sorry?
>> Did you stay in Atlanta.
Was he still at Georgia Tech at that time?
>> Right. We were there for maybe a couple of years.
And then he was a private pilot at the time.
And he used to fly tropical fish.
>> That was after you left Atlanta.
That was after he graduated from Georgia Tech?
>> He graduated from Tech, yes.
And then he was
flying tropical fish from the Amazon to Tampa, Florida.
And he had to stop in the Island of Jamaica to refuel,
but then he had to get clearance to go into
Columbia, South America.
And back then, it took
a while to get clearance to do that.
So I had to get the clearance form in Tampa
with the Colombian Embassy.
I didn't speak Spanish.
So my husband's sister who could speak Spanish,
she was there and she interpreted everything.
So I got him clearance,
but he stayed in Jamaica for about a week to go down.
And he loved Jamaica and everybody was so friendly.
And we ended up spending 20 years in Jamaica.
>> Oh, wow.
>> He ran an airline in Jamaica called
Jamaica Air Taxi and Trans Jamaica Air Airlines.
And that was quite exciting.
>> Did you enjoy the time in Jamaica?
>> The children were born in Jamaica.
So that was a lot of fun.
>> Oh, that's great.
>> And we came back to the states in 1980.
>> And then you relocated
from Atlanta or did you go back to Atlanta?
>> No, we went to Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
Actually, Plantation, Florida,
which is a suburb of Fort Lauderdale.
He actually ran a business.
He started with other people,
of course, computer animation.
And he animated automobile accidents,
and they presented them in court.
So that was quite interesting.
So my husband was a jack of all trades.
>> That sounds like it.
Were you mostly a homemaker during this time,
or did you have a career outside the home?
>> Sometimes I did temporary work.
>> I see.
>> But mostly at home.
I had three children.
>> Did they grow up playing baseball?
>> You want to show your face.
[LAUGHTER]
>> Hi.
>> Thanks.
>> What did you say did they play?
>> Did they play baseball as children?
>> No. [LAUGHTER]
>> Joe played baseball.
>> Not very well.
>> Joe? You used to keep score.
>> No, Joe change did not.
I didn't pass on any of those changes.
>> They had other interests, I suppose.
>> But I had three children.
>> Have you kept up with professional
baseball over the years?
Is that an interest of yours?
>> For a while I was rooting for Atlanta.
>> Braves.
>> At one time, they were called the Atlanta Crackers.
>> Oh, really? I didn't know that.
>> But now I'm into basketball.
I love the Miami Heat.
>> Oh, fantastic. [LAUGHTER] You
mentioned that your father was
a semi professional ball player.
Do you think he encouraged you to play ball?
>> Actually, my mother and father were separated.
So I didn't really have grow up with my father very much.
But he never encouraged me,
you're born with it, I guess.
I didn't play with girls,
I played with boys.
>> Was your time on the Lorelei Ladies
the first opportunity you'd really
had to play baseball with other girls?
>> I never played baseball with girls.
When I was going to school,
we never had a girls softball team in my school.
We had girls basketball, which I played.
But my school has never had
a girls baseball team or a softball team.
>> That's so interesting to think
about a city like Atlanta had
enough people that there were
enough women who could get a team together.
>> You're talking about Atlanta?
>> Yes.
>> No, I'm talking about in South Georgia.
>> I meant that when you got to Atlanta,
there was a team there that you could play with.
>> Exactly. And I only learned about it from,
I guess his name was Mr. Lough?
>> Yes. I think it's Lower Lough, L-O-U-G-H.
>> He was very nice.
>> Did your co-workers know that you played baseball?
>> I don't know. I don't remember.
>> That's okay. Well, is there anything else
that we haven't talked about that
you'd like to tell us about,
either about your time on the Lorelei
Ladies or in Atlanta.
>> I can just say I enjoyed it very, very much.
I loved playing any type of ball, really.
>> That's great. I did mean to ask what kind of
things did you do for fun in
Atlanta when you were living there?
>> We went to a lot of movies,
drive in and the company
I worked for was
the Children's Welfare Department.
And we went to picnics every year.
The companies I worked for,
they were very close-knit.
We all did things together.
>> That's nice. And you,
were you living alone or
with family when you were living in Atlanta?
>> With my mother.
>> With your mother.
>> Just me and my mother..
>> That's nice. I'm trying to think of how to ask,
what did you think the general attitudes were like
about girls playing sports in that period of time?
I know that you said there were
not as many opportunities.
>> No, I think people gravitated to the girls teams.
I think people enjoyed Washington.
It was a nice close-knit team.
Everybody got along.
Nobody thought.
>> That's good.
>> We had a good time when we went to Phoenix.
>> That's great.
>> Do you want to tell any of the stories?
You told me some details
about when you went on the horseback.
>> We went horseback riding.
I'd never been on a horse before.
>> Oh, wow.
>> And the horse was
three or four horses with girls on them.
And they would be trotting slowly.
But then I think the horses got
tired and they wanted to go back home.
So they practically turned us
around and they started galloping.
>> Oh, no.
>> And I'm holding on for dear life.
I remember that I didn't want to fall off.
>> My goodness.
>> That was an experience and it was very hot in Phoenix,
and I don't think that hotels were air
conditioned.
>> Oh, bad.
>> And that was a misery, too.
But as far as playing, it was fine.
We didn't win the tournament that year.
>> Did you travel any of the other years?
>> I don't think so because I don't remember.
I think I would've remembered.
>> I think they went to Toronto maybe in '53 or '54.
That may have been after your time.
>> Right. I didn't stay with them.
I would say I left them in early '54.
So I think I was with him for about a year.
>> Do you remember the young lady,
her name was, I think, Frances Wallace?
>> I read about her.
But it didn't strike me back then.
>> She may have been on the team after you.
>> She probably was.
>> I see.
>> I read about it the other day. She was quite good.
>> It seems like she was pretty good.
>> Do you play?
>> No, ma'am. I was not very athletically inclined.
But I appreciate all of these stories.
They're wonderful to have.
>> Something you'll always remember.
>> I was in the marching band.
That was me. But is
there anything else you'd like to share with us today?
>> You think of anything?
>> No, just the boys
the men that were whistling at you in Phoenix,
the team when you run out.
>> The girls are out walking around,
of course, boys follow you,
you know how that is.
I guess. I think they do that very much now.
I think it's probably against the law.
>> When you say they followed you, what do you mean?
>> Trying to be friendly
with you so you might date them or something.
>> Now, was that when you
were on the field or off the field?
>> When you were maybe traveling in.
>> I see.
>> If the girls go out in a bunch you there's
always boys that are going to be following you.
But I must
say one thing we used to do that we did then.
We filled balloons with water.
>> On the trip?
>> Yeah, when we got to Phoenix and the boys were
down I guess we were on
the second or third floor up
yet and we'd opened the window.
And we filled the balloons
with water and throw them down.
Stupid things like that.
>> Well, what were they doing when you
were throwing water balloons at them?
Had they been kind
of saying anything to you or was that just.
>> You mean the boys?
>> Yeah.
>> When you're like a bunch of girls walking on
the sidewalk and guys
or young men are around and they try to pick you up.
>> Sure. So the water balloons were to discourage them.
>> I don't know if it happens today or not.
>> I think it does. But that was kind
of asking them to leave, basically.
>> We were having fun throwing balloons before.
>> That does sound fun. I did
want to ask one other thing.
I noticed in the photograph that
you pointed out that you're in your uniforms.
What do you remember about your uniforms for the team?
>> Yes, I call them bloomers.
They were bushy.
When you had them on,
it didn't look so hot.
>> Were they easy or hard to play in?
>> No. They were easy.
They were sort of bloom out.
>> Good.
>> They weren'tlike short shorts.
They were bloomers.
>> I see. Yes. I guess
most men who played baseball at the time
wore pants or would they wear shorts?
>> Baseball, I would imagine they wore pants.
>> So they didn't have you wear.
>> I don't remember seeing men in shorts.
>> I see. But the girls wore shorts?
>> Yeah.
>> You said it was easy to play in, but I mean,
would you get skin knees and things
because your legs weren't covered?
>> Did I get what?
>> Did you ever get skin knees or
bruises or anything because your legs weren't covered?
>> Not really. Well, as I recall in high school,
we had bloomers.
We might have practiced in long pants.
>> I see.
>> Maybe I'm thinking
about the basketball uniforms.
>> Maybe. It looked like you all played in shorts in
the scrapbook pictures or
it looks like your uniform shorts.
>> I wish I had saved some of my uniforms.
I didn't save anything.
>> Well, I'm so glad we have that picture of you.
>> But it was very, very nice.
I enjoyed every minute.
>> Wonderful. Well, unless you have
anything else you'd like to share,
I'll go ahead and conclude the interview.
But thank you so much Ms.
Mantel for sharing your memories with us.
>> Well, thank you. I hope
some of our players are still around.
I'm sure they are.
>> From your era, I'm not sure that many are,
but I'm very pleased to have gotten to speak with you.
>> Nice and good luck to you.
>> Thank you.